Short Thoughts on Martial Arts I've Done

Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)

North Coast Miller

Level 7 Valued Member
I used the basic straight front kick, usually to the balls. Otherwise the only other time I kicked (this is going to sound terrible) was to a downed opponent, please remember I'm no longer this person.
"To be kind to an opponent is to be cruel to yourself."
 
Last edited:

dc

Level 6 Valued Member
This might not make sense, but I'd just like to say a quick thanks to the forum & its users (esp. this thread). Thanks to the relative anonymity of this forum for me I'm able to be completely honest about my past & discuss it openly. This something I'm not comfortable doing in my daily life. Over the past 8yrs I've been working a normal job I've made new friends, "normal" people. I don't discuss my past as I fear I'll be judged for my mistakes. I've made up stories to explain scars I carry, the skin cancer I got cut out of my back is actually where I got stabbed. It has been a bit cathartic for me to be so transparent. You guys mightn't understand if you're not in this position but thanks for letting me be honest without judging, or at least judging in silence at home.
 

North Coast Miller

Level 7 Valued Member
This might not make sense, but I'd just like to say a quick thanks to the forum & its users (esp. this thread). Thanks to the relative anonymity of this forum for me I'm able to be completely honest about my past & discuss it openly.
Heck, there's some stuff I won't share even with relative anonymity :). Just bringing a lot of this up has me remembering activities that very much seem like from another lifetime - I almost forget. For me that goes back over 20 years though, I have work boots over 8 years old I still wear 5 days a week.

+1 to the forum and +1 to the thread.
 

conor78

Level 6 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
Regardless of which martial art you study the benefits are tremendous are in many ways not easy to quantify. Self respect, taking the ego, self control are all things that I have absorbed. One other element that I enjoy is the flow state that practising a martial art produces. With 3 kids and a busy family life this is very rewarding. When lifting weights my mind can wander, doesn't seem to happen when I'm practising MT.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
I disagree with the last part of this quote. I'm not a fan of the arts that require you to hit the ground for self defence. In my experience this is a recipe for getting your head kicked in.
Yeah, I guess as I judo guy I tend to take the standing grappling skills for granted and assume BJJ guys learn enough standing wrestling skills on the side to handle untrained people, but I've come to realize that they actually know nothing at all or terribly little and that's pretty bad. I've also found my judo skills stronger on the ground than a lot of BJJ folks' skills even though we use BJJ rules - the going to the back strategy is always beat by me with easy guard passes and top dominance. The BJJ guys that are better top game players than me can beat me. I think BJJ is good if you also spend a decent amount of time also learning judo or wrestling, and if we're talking self defence, you absolutely have to train in something like boxing or kickboxing at least for a while even if it isn't a focus for you. Overall I still think judo is the best overall compromise between exercise, safety and self-defence.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
As for ground fighting for reality-based self-defence: standup grappling and positional skills on the ground are a must. I.e. avoid ground at all costs, but if you happen to get on the ground, get into a better position and standup.
I agree with you. Because I'm a judo guy I think everyone can naturally wrestle on their feet or learn to do it quickly. I've learned recently working out with skilled BJJ folks that this is not at all the case.
 
Last edited:

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
Agree with @Pavel Macek and @dc. Skills for self defence IMO should revolve around (in order of importance): stand up striking, mixed with a bit of stand up grappling/clinching, and avoiding the ground but having an idea of what to do if you get there (i.e. get back on your feet).

As such, BJJ as a lone discipline is simply not a viable self defence option.
I'm not sure if standup striking or standup wrestling is more important. I lean towards standup wrestling because when you come to wrestling grips, which can happen in less than a second in a fight, striking is pretty hard to do, and if you're busy worrying about striking you can get taken down easily. I've competed in amateur MMA by the way and trained MMA for a number of years, so I'm not just making this up. I'm not saying I'm sure I'm right though, but it seems like this.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
Any students or practitioners of MA with shorter traditions here? I am thinking of things like Krav Maga and also some of the "executive self-defense" programs out there, by Tony Blauer, Tim Larkin and others.

-S-
I don't claim to know much about things like Krav Maga, but even if you train to do deadly things to people in nasty ways, if you don't train full force and at full speed having to react to changing circumstances with full power and wit, you're missing something. In judo we take away the striking but we allow any kind of body slamming, tripping, choking, throttling, arm snapping (well, the arm snapping is slowed down a little.) Also, we're wearing clothes supposed to resemble a shirt, belt and pants, which most people wear, so we're training wearing what you will be wearing more or less in a real fight. It's all full power and speed, and you can be really mean and aggressive and frankly speaking sadistic and cruel, which all resemble real life fighting pretty closely, except of course we have mats, and we don't hit each other. Unless the bad guy has this kind of training, or he's a great boxer or something, he had better have a weapon, several friends, or be a lot bigger and stronger.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
I agree about 90% of the time. In my very limited experience they work best after an exchange of hands and a bit of separation. I used a round kick in a fight once. We had exchanged a couple of good shots, I felt his head snap back from a right cross or two and he came back with a palm to the center of my face. I used the space from my getting knocked backward to launch one - he was about 6'2" or taller, instead of floating ribs it hit his hip - still gave me a second and knocked him off balance so I could better appreciate the punches I was receiving on the back and sides of my head from his buddies :). Truth be told there was zero thought involved and I had to piece it together after the fact while I was icing the back of my head - "Hey, I actually landed a solid kick mixed in there!"

In another scrap, a buddy of mine had been bum-rushed by a guy with a heavy plastic snow-brush. He took a couple of solid whacks across his forehead, faded back a step and kicked the guy in the gut with a front kick, with steel toe boots. "It hit something soft and sunk in a bit" was how he described it - again it was all instinct - he was directing it by reflex, no volitional intent. When his man sunk away, he didn't give chase.

I used to train muay thai shin kicks and foot jab - both low, and reverse side kick/stomp. Most of my other kicks slowly got phased out and I deliberately let the instinct to use them wither a bit. Mostly these days if I'm working MA is footwork and low MT blocks. I still keep up on the reverse stomp since it telegraphs so little and barely disturbs the balance. I haven't even thrown a round kick in years.
I agree. I think the problem with kicking is that it is a very hard skill to learn well, which is why it is still associated with the mystical Orient. I'm not sure though that time is best spent mastering kicking instead of other things like wrestling.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
Beware the fads in martial arts. Things are popular because they are easy. The best stuff will never be very popular - somewhat popular among the knowing, but never very popular. Karate without hardening the fists, and sport BJJ without the full scope of judo throws and striking - these are the popular things that are easy to do these days.
 

dc

Level 6 Valued Member
I'm not sure if standup striking or standup wrestling is more important. I lean towards standup wrestling because when you come to wrestling grips, which can happen in less than a second in a fight, striking is pretty hard to do, and if you're busy worrying about striking you can get taken down easily
I found the pre-emptive strike tends to take a lot of grappling/wrestling out of the equation. If they do get their hands on you, the body has quite a few hard boney surface that may also be used to strike. Biting & driving thumb/fingers into places they shouldn't be is also very effective.
 

dc

Level 6 Valued Member
I've competed in amateur MMA by the way and trained MMA for a number of years, so I'm not just making this up.
mma & SD are two different beasts. If you've trained mma but not had to defend yourself on the street & you upset a man experienced in violence you'll get hurt in a bad way.
 

dc

Level 6 Valued Member
Unless the bad guy has this kind of training, or he's a great boxer or something, he had better have a weapon, several friends, or be a lot bigger and stronger.
Not necessarily, basically all he needs is a decent right hand(or left) & the smarts to throw it when you don't see it coming. Requires experience in those situations more than training techniques.
 

dc

Level 6 Valued Member
Karate without hardening the fists
I trained kyokushin for many years & never "hardened" my fists. For SD you'd be better off swinging a 2b4 than sticking it in the ground tying rope around it & hitting it. If you want to strengthen your hands for striking then strengthen your grip. A lot of the old school practitioners I knew would purposely try to harden their fists, & a lot of them now have arthritis in their hands & wrists. You want to hit hard, then get a vise like grip.
 

North Coast Miller

Level 7 Valued Member
I agree. I think the problem with kicking is that it is a very hard skill to learn well, which is why it is still associated with the mystical Orient. I'm not sure though that time is best spent mastering kicking instead of other things like wrestling.
IDK about that. I would agree when it comes to high kicks, but it isn't very tough to teach a front kick, stomp, or low round kick, and I include sweeps and knees in the 'kick' category as well. Although the only knee I might use is a straight one to the hip socket or front of the thigh if I'm tying up.

The toughest thing to learn about kicking is when to cut it loose and when to preserve your mobility.

Everything works, but when it comes to SD you have to account for the 360 degree factor, and complete lack of rules, starting bell, etc. As I look at it, multiple assailants and weapons, low light, noise, distractions, assorted milling extras who might jump in at any moment, ambush, are the norm not the exception. Everything flows from those assumptions.

Low kicks are extremely tough to spot coming under those conditions, especially if sleeves are being grabbed etc. They don't have to disable someone, just get them to drop their hands for a second so I can rake their face/punch the jaw, or make them think twice about giving chase - hurt and away whenever possible.
 

Wesker11

Level 6 Valued Member
My teacher has said that if ever in a street fight, to never throw a high kick. Front snap kick to the groin, knee, or side kicks to the stomach, yes. Low kicks are fairly easy to put some power behind. I can only imagine the damage possible if one has mastered them.
 

the hansenator

Level 6 Valued Member
I don't have personal experience but my brother knew a guy in college who studied hapkido and ended a couple of fights with a front kick. FWIW
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
mma & SD are two different beasts. If you've trained mma but not had to defend yourself on the street & you upset a man experienced in violence you'll get hurt in a bad way.
I don't want to say too much about the street fights, but I've found street fights very easy to win.

I totally agree with what you said about the importance of simple striking skills and of simply put: sadism, and also that anyone with a good punch is a deadly weapon. I think these are very important for real life encounters. I've definitely found untrained mean people though to be pretty useless, but not that I have been involved in enough self-defence situations to have a good sampling for statistical purposes! Now, a big exception was a bouncer I trained with once, and I'd say what he had learned from practical experience in bars was much better than what I could do. For instance, he trained in constantly pushing the guy's front away from him to the ground to make sure he couldn't do anything. This is more practical than the kind of wrestling training we do where we throw people (for safety reasons obviously) to their backs.

But the idea that judo and similar people who wrestle full power for several hours a week suddenly become sheep in a real fight is amusing.

My current judo coach was a bouncer in a well known local biker bar for over 20 years, hehehe.
 
Last edited:

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
IDK about that. I would agree when it comes to high kicks, but it isn't very tough to teach a front kick, stomp, or low round kick, and I include sweeps and knees in the 'kick' category as well. Although the only knee I might use is a straight one to the hip socket or front of the thigh if I'm tying up.

The toughest thing to learn about kicking is when to cut it loose and when to preserve your mobility.

Everything works, but when it comes to SD you have to account for the 360 degree factor, and complete lack of rules, starting bell, etc. As I look at it, multiple assailants and weapons, low light, noise, distractions, assorted milling extras who might jump in at any moment, ambush, are the norm not the exception. Everything flows from those assumptions.

Low kicks are extremely tough to spot coming under those conditions, especially if sleeves are being grabbed etc. They don't have to disable someone, just get them to drop their hands for a second so I can rake their face/punch the jaw, or make them think twice about giving chase - hurt and away whenever possible.
Just don't slip and fall when kicking.
 
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Top Bottom