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Barbell Should I Squat?

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It's not squats that hurt your knees, it's the wrong technique. For example, in no case should you squat with a lot of weight so that your knees extend beyond your toes since usually the bodyweight is distributed evenly for balance and when lifting you need to push yourself with your heels, not leaning forward too much. In addition, the backrest is worth paying attention to. No humps in the lower back and thoracic region: can lead to spinal injuries. If interested, you can click here and choose a training program or consult with professionals. I also had knee pain and was advised to reduce the weight and work with half the range rather than fully extend the knees to avoid stress on the joints.

I really don't agree, about anything. Or I do about the importance of technique.

The knees can safely travel past the toes. I thought that myth was debunked by pretty much everyone by now.

One must use the whole of the foot to push from.

The forward lean is a question of different types of squats for different purposes. Powerlifters generally squat with more lean and less depth than weightlifters since it is more advantageous for their sport and typical body proportions.

The lower back shouldn't move into flexion or extension during the lift. The upper back is more resilient than the lower back.

The knees should be extended.

Of course, I'm certain that for some individuals there may be cause for different rules and they should play by them. All of the above is meant for the general population.
 
Personally I'd say if you want to put on weight overall, the barbell backsquat is absolutely king of anabolic stimulation.

For building strength in the legs it is tough to beat, although if it gives your knees or back trouble then swap it out for a unilateral lift that keeps the other leg behind you or neutral such as step ups or split squat.
 
Do we really have to devolve into a knees over toes or not debate?

There are many ways to squat. Find one that you can do reasonably well and pain free and get after it. You will work out the finer details with time, attention, and hard work.
 
Do we really have to devolve into a knees over toes or not debate?
There's no debate here: It's one of those pieces of misninformation that just refuses to go away and does nobody any good, especially when it's presented as an absolute (i.e. knees over toes is 'wrong/bad').

I may have come across a little more forthright than usual, and I mean no disrespect to @Glove1054 as I was taught exactly the same thing with regards to squatting safely.
 
The answer is always yes to squats. What type depends on goals. Getting stronger? Barbell squats, 3-5 reps. More athletic and powerful? Double kettlebell front squats. Healthier? Goblet squats with pause. Building size? 20 rep breathing squats. Barbell is fine as long as form is good.
 
So as a quick follow up since this thread was bumped…. I am indeed squatting, with no issues. Here is current status. Intent is to follow this through the fall, then transition back to a cycle of kettlebell work in the winter.

Squatting every 3 days. Currently 3 sets of 5 reps at 185 lbs
Bench every 3 days (same day as squat). 3 sets of 5 at 125 lbs
Deadlift every 5 days, 3 sets of 5 at 215 lbs.
Light cardio (jog or jump rope) for 30+ minutes on off days.

Trying to learn lessons from S&S and not do too much in terms of going to failure or adding too much weight too soon.

No pre-defined goals other than “get stronger” and drop a few pounds. (Currently weigh 190 lbs)
 
I am thinking of focusing on two lifts: deadlift and bench press.
Hi @oukeith1 have you read PTTP? Your post title is squat but you mention focusing on these two lifts above. PTTP would be a good option and the cardio advice from Pavel is basically skipping so lines up nicely with your plan.
 
@Gary Logue At the time I posted this, I had read ETK and noticed Pavel *seemed* to have a distaste for squats. I basically started this thread looking for some other perspectives on the usefulness and/or necessity of back squatting regularly.

I really don’t have an opinion yet on the matter. Just learning as I go and trying to get stronger and healthier….
 
@Gary Logue At the time I posted this, I had read ETK and noticed Pavel *seemed* to have a distaste for squats. I basically started this thread looking for some other perspectives on the usefulness and/or necessity of back squatting regularly.

I really don’t have an opinion yet on the matter. Just learning as I go and trying to get stronger and healthier….
I don't think Pavel dislikes squats at all. I think he loves squats actually.

Don't get him started on lunges and Bulgarian Split Squats on the other hand... ;)
 
I don't think Pavel dislikes squats at all. I think he loves squats actually.

Don't get him started on lunges and Bulgarian Split Squats on the other hand... ;)
Understand, but most of the stuff I’ve read from him certainly does not prioritize them at all.
 
Understand, but most of the stuff I’ve read from him certainly does not prioritize them at all.

I think it's a target audience question.

A lot of the StrongFirst work focused on combat sports, tactical practitioners, and others for whom squat strength is just not a priority.

It also raises the question of:

What is there left to say about squats that hasn't already been said?

Squats have to be one of the most academically studied movements in the S&C literature.

Not to mention all the countless different squat-specific (e.g. Smolov, Sheiko) or squat-centric S&C programs (e.g. Starting Strength) already in existence.
 
I think for general population, everybody should squat and everybody should squat heavy. There, I said it. :D I wonder if I should report myself.

This might be an area where I disagree with Strongfirst, I think the saying is, "everybody should squat but not everybody needs to squat heavy".

Mountain climbers might be an exception, or marathon runners, or other very specific types of athletes. And by "heavy" I dont mean like a powerlifter, or even train it all the time. But I think the average person who trains should spend some time under the bar getting strong. The squat is typically the center piece of my training program and I find barbell squats more rewarding vs other lifts (like deadlifts). I like deadlifts too though!

I have more to say on this but I need to go and walk my dogs before it gets dark. I will have to take it nice and slow since my thighs are really chaffing me...
 
I think it's a target audience question.

A lot of the StrongFirst work focused on combat sports, tactical practitioners, and others for whom squat strength is just not a priority.
This is the exact reason I posted this in the first place. If there are certain categories of lifters/athletes/avg Joe’s for whom squatting doesn’t make sense, then how does one determine this? I definitely fall into the noob/avg Joe category, so the question is, what am I getting with squat that I would miss if I just went with DL and bench?

Not trying to beat a dead horse. I think it is a legitimately interesting question.

As a side note, since I stopped S&S and started with the barbell and running, I am super hungry all the time. ?
 
This is the exact reason I posted this in the first place. If there are certain categories of lifters/athletes/avg Joe’s for whom squatting doesn’t make sense, then how does one determine this? I definitely fall into the noob/avg Joe category, so the question is, what am I getting with squat that I would miss if I just went with DL and bench?

Not trying to beat a dead horse. I think it is a legitimately interesting question.

As a side note, since I stopped S&S and started with the barbell and running, I am super hungry all the time. ?

PTTP addresses this question, and for the average person, there doesn’t appear to be a LOT of difference. As Pavel states, you work more muscles in the deadlift since you have to engage more upper body to hold the bar, so it is a more complete body movement. The only part of the body that isn’t worked (or can’t be targeted better with variations) is the press, hence why he adds a press to the program.
 
This is the exact reason I posted this in the first place. If there are certain categories of lifters/athletes/avg Joe’s for whom squatting doesn’t make sense, then how does one determine this? I definitely fall into the noob/avg Joe category, so the question is, what am I getting with squat that I would miss if I just went with DL and bench?

Not trying to beat a dead horse. I think it is a legitimately interesting question.

As a side note, since I stopped S&S and started with the barbell and running, I am super hungry all the time. ?
I am hungry too from deadlifting but find LISS running suppresses my appetite. Particularly in a warm climate.
 
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