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Barbell Should I Squat?

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oukeith1 said:
This is the exact reason I posted this in the first place. If there are certain categories of lifters/athletes/avg Joe’s for whom squatting doesn’t make sense, then how does one determine this? I definitely fall into the noob/avg Joe category, so the question is, what am I getting with squat that I would miss if I just went with DL and bench?
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No one needs to squat anymore than they need to do any specific exercise, piece of equipment, or sport. It's why I asked you at the beginning of the thread "Do you WANT to squat?". If you have poor leverages for squatting and/or squatting causes you pain AND you don't want to squat, then forget about it - there are other ways to reap similar benefits.

In a squat, the hips, knees, and ankles move through a greater range of motion than in a hinge. You squat when you climb, crawl, drop to and get up off the floor, and get in and out of a chair. It is a fundamental movement. Can you do a 'squat' without 'squatting'? Yes, there are many substitute exercises and variants. Does anyone really need to do them? Again, (and I'm not trying to be circular - seriously) it depends.
 
Pete L said:
I am hungry too from deadlifting but find LISS running suppresses my appetite. Particularly in a warm climate.
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Yeah, I’ve found that light exercise generally suppresses my appetite, but when the intensity or volume starts stacking up, that is makes me hungover. I think S&S had the effect of suppressing my appetite, in the sense that I didn’t feel the need to eat for the sake of eating all the time.
 
Boris Bachmann said:
No one needs to squat anymore than they need to do any specific exercise, piece of equipment, or sport. It's why I asked you at the beginning of the thread "Do you WANT to squat?". If you have poor leverages for squatting and/or squatting causes you pain AND you don't want to squat, then forget about it - there are other ways to reap similar benefits.

In a squat, the hips, knees, and ankles move through a greater range of motion than in a hinge. You squat when you climb, crawl, drop to and get up off the floor, and get in and out of a chair. It is a fundamental movement. Can you do a 'squat' without 'squatting'? Yes, there are many substitute exercises and variants. Does anyone really need to do them? Again, (and I'm not trying to be circular - seriously) it depends.
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I tend to agree with what you are saying. I am curious to see what happens in the next 6-12 months in terms of body transformation and athletic pursuits.

I am just a weekend golfer, but I am curious to see if the strength does anything for my golf game.

A couple of recent days of heavy labor (moving and yard work) have me convinced that S&S got me functionally stronger and fitter in a meaningful way (even if my deadlift is low). So I definitely understand the point that no one exercise is any kind of must do…
 
Glove1054 said:
in no case should you squat with a lot of weight so that your knees extend beyond your toes
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A lot of weightlifters would disagree with you on that point, as would I.

oukeith1 said:
If there are certain categories of lifters/athletes/avg Joe’s for whom squatting doesn’t make sense, then how does one determine this? I definitely fall into the noob/avg Joe category, so the question is, what am I getting with squat that I would miss if I just went with DL and bench?
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Everyone should squat; not everyone needs to squat heavy. Squatting and squatting heavy are really two different things. You can just DL and BP - it's a fine program. The question must be, "What are your goals?" If you are, as @watchnerd says, MIL/LEO or something similar, practice goblet squats and get stronger using DL and BP - at least that's my recommendation.

I have no interest in squatting except that I'm a 3-lift powerlifter, so it's one of the lifts in a meet, so I now do it, this after years of competing as DL only.

So, what are you after - what do you want to accomplish in your lifting?

-S-
 
@Steve Freides - thanks for the input. I’ve committed to my routine for the next 6 months or so, and it contains squats.

Having said that, my goals are pretty simple. Get strong as heck for once in my life. Have energy for work and play and to take what life throws at me, have a healthy cardio system. Lose a few pounds. And smash a golf ball. ?

I will report back in a few months with how my experience and perception evolves, for whatever it is worth.
 
Old article from Rob:

How and Why I Squat: A Fitness article from Dragon Door Publications | Dragon Door

A Fitness article : How and Why I Squat by Rob Lawrence, RKC
www.dragondoor.com
" But even if you don't want to pack on mass -- for example, if you are a "wiry" strength trainee like myself (5' 11", 165) who can't or won't spend half your waking hours eating -- you should seriously consider making the squat your core exercise. This article explains why and how."
 
I totally agree that tactical & combat athletes generally don't want to spend time/energy on squatting - they need fresh legs for other endeavors. Same thing for endurance athletes. Anyone with a physically-demanding job or hobby needs to squat/not-squat based on those demands.

But, what about the generalist, with no real sport or physical pursuit to worry about? The classic "what is GPP" question. In my mind, a generalist ought to try to be OK (i.e. not necessarily great) in all planes of motion and ROM - which includes getting down to rock bottom in a squat, and being able to get out of rock bottom while holding something heavy.

So, my $0.02 is, heck yes a generalist should squat. But, my definition of a generalist is someone who is, to some degree, trying to be "ready for anything". If your definition is "I just want to be fit-ish but not spend a long time getting there", then the answer might be different.

My personal experience - I stopped squatting heavy for a long time. I recently started up again and discovered, in spite of having trained other modalities diligently, that all sorts of squat support muscles were weak like kittens. Clear proof that if I want to be indestructible, I gotta squat.
 
oukeith1 said:
This is the exact reason I posted this in the first place. If there are certain categories of lifters/athletes/avg Joe’s for whom squatting doesn’t make sense, then how does one determine this? I definitely fall into the noob/avg Joe category, so the question is, what am I getting with squat that I would miss if I just went with DL and bench?

Not trying to beat a dead horse. I think it is a legitimately interesting question.

As a side note, since I stopped S&S and started with the barbell and running, I am super hungry all the time. ?
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DL + bench + goblet squats are probably better for the average person than DL + bench + no squats.

Things can get out of balance if you're all posterior chain, all the time.

Oh, and add some pulling/rowing and vertical presses, too.

Some people count the DL as a 'pull', but it's not the same as chin up/pull up/row.
 
q.Hung said:
Old article from Rob:

How and Why I Squat: A Fitness article from Dragon Door Publications | Dragon Door

A Fitness article : How and Why I Squat by Rob Lawrence, RKC
www.dragondoor.com
" But even if you don't want to pack on mass -- for example, if you are a "wiry" strength trainee like myself (5' 11", 165) who can't or won't spend half your waking hours eating -- you should seriously consider making the squat your core exercise. This article explains why and how."
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I thought this was an interesting quote:

I am faster and more flexible and feel athletic in ways I never did while concentrating on the deadlift.
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Naturally, as weightlifter, I don't actually truly do real deadlifts.

But I do notice that if I do too many heavy (>85%) clean pulls, I lose explosiveness, at least for a while.

Doesn't seem to be a problem in the 60-80% range.
 
solarbear said:
I have a feeling if American Football was a Russian sport, he might have a different frame of mind.
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Respectfully disagree. StrongFirst is interested in helping everyone achieve their goals, but the history goes back to military and law enforcement as I understand it.

-S-
 
Steve Freides said:
Respectfully disagree. StrongFirst is interested in helping everyone achieve their goals, but the history goes back to military and law enforcement as I understand it.

-S-
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I am not sure you disprove my point. I was commenting specifically on Pavel and how his background and experience has influenced him.

I was thinking of Pavel's background and the types of people and the types of sports he has worked with. If he was training American Footballers over the same period of time, a sport where low hips pushing forward wins, his attitude towards the squat might've developed differently as it has for so many S&C coaches in America.
 
Last edited:
@solarbear, I cannot disprove your points but there is, IMHO, no point to your points and no point therefore in trying to disprove them.

:). Have a good day.

-S-
 
oukeith1 said:
So as a quick follow up since this thread was bumped…. I am indeed squatting, with no issues. Here is current status. Intent is to follow this through the fall, then transition back to a cycle of kettlebell work in the winter.

Squatting every 3 days. Currently 3 sets of 5 reps at 185 lbs
Bench every 3 days (same day as squat). 3 sets of 5 at 125 lbs
Deadlift every 5 days, 3 sets of 5 at 215 lbs.
Light cardio (jog or jump rope) for 30+ minutes on off days.

Trying to learn lessons from S&S and not do too much in terms of going to failure or adding too much weight too soon.

No pre-defined goals other than “get stronger” and drop a few pounds. (Currently weigh 190 lbs)
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I thought I’d provide a quick status update. I’ve been lifting and jogging/jump roping very consistently as planned since June or July.

My current lifts:
Squatting at 195 lbs
Benching at 135 lbs
Deadlifting at 225 lbs

The numbers look a bit underwhelming, and I’m not too pleased with them. But for context, I’m putting in more sets/volume than back in June, and probably have much better form. Also, the weight is going up easier and I’m not feeling tapped out from a few workouts in a row.

My routine morphed into all three lifts, every 4 or 5 days, with cardio on other days. This was largely based on work/life demands, but I found it also helps me commit to cardio more as well.

Probably going to stick with this for another 3 months before rotating back to kettlebell in the winter.

Hoping to make more progress for sure….
 
oukeith1 said:
I thought I’d provide a quick status update. I’ve been lifting and jogging/jump roping very consistently as planned since June or July.

My current lifts:
Squatting at 195 lbs
Benching at 135 lbs
Deadlifting at 225 lbs

The numbers look a bit underwhelming, and I’m not too pleased with them. But for context, I’m putting in more sets/volume than back in June, and probably have much better form. Also, the weight is going up easier and I’m not feeling tapped out from a few workouts in a row.

My routine morphed into all three lifts, every 4 or 5 days, with cardio on other days. This was largely based on work/life demands, but I found it also helps me commit to cardio more as well.

Probably going to stick with this for another 3 months before rotating back to kettlebell in the winter.

Hoping to make more progress for sure….
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Congrats! I do something similar. Except I do once per week instead of every 4 or 5 days. A "Jumbo Day".

How are the squats? Any pro's or con's for leaving them into your routine?

Regards,

Eric
 
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