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Nutrition Should I Stick or Twist? (Longer Term Kettlebell+WD Diet/Training Advice Required)

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Richard Bath

Richard Bath

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Hello whoever clicked. I hope your well.

I need an unbiasedish opinion because I'm getting fat.

I used to be BIG in the crappiest way possible, professional chef, zero training. Lots of coffee redbull and almost zero real food until a day off binge. All the bad habits.

I got out of that and into fitness, became a personal trainer, got into kettlebells, discovered Pavel, discovered Ori and the Warrior Diet and everything proceeded as expected. I've never been LEAN but a pretty good improvement. Worked for me, works for clients.

The thing is that as time progresses (few years into my 3rd decade) it's getting harder to stay lean. And by harder I mean I'm getting heavier.

The WD has worked great and I love it. Feel very healthy and can follow it easily. My fitness level is reasonable (hit the Simple requirement, 100 24kg snatches in 5mins and I'm up for the SFG1 in a few months and training hard).

I'm worried that I'm just too used to this now to see ongoing results.

Should I stick to my guns, clean up the edges of my food to be 100% warrior diet compliant with all the cycling and organic bits and just push my training hard doing the things I enjoy... Or...

Twist. Take time out for conventional cardio a la Kenneth Jay, get some heavier barbell work in (maybe even isolate things if I remember how) and start eating weighted chicken rice and broccoli every hour and twenty minutes. Usual physique stuff.

All opinions gratefully accepted.
 
Warrior Diet avec des nuts and veggies (and not much else) during overeating phase did wonders for getting me lean/skinny ripped.
 
You sound like me. I'd rather have Conor McGregor kick me in the nuts than go down the whole calorie counting/macros stuff... Follow the Warrior Diet, and binge on the right combinations of foods in the evening and you should do just fine. High fat meals in the evening seem to do the trick for fat burning for me.
 
If you feel good doing the WD, just do that.
In essence if you feel you get a little fatter, you are getting more in than you use. Of course you are the only one who can judge that.
 
I've dropped Warrior Diet calories way lower than would be reasonable and still not seen much any change in weight. I'm 6'4 and 240lb and have had the calories on the WD down to 1500 to 1000 without fat loss.

Just tiredness, weakness and general lack of awesome.
 
The WD is about under-eating most of the day - sounds like you're overdoing the under-eating. Have a bit more during the day.

Also have a look at your exercise - you could also be experiencing over-training.

-S-
 
Intermittent fasting and caloric restriction tend to be less effective in people who are stressed and/or don't get enough sleep. I agree with all the above suggestions (especially eating more some times), but it might be good to take a look at the whole picture.
 
@Richard Bath don't punish yourself man. Going down to 1000-1500 calories, especially at your size just sounds miserable, and I promise you'll crack and binge like crazy if you keep that up for any length of time, especially given that you're feeling tired and weak (that's your body's way of saying you're doing something wrong!). Just eat the right foods consistently and everything will fall into place. I don't know enough about the science and biology of nutrition to explain why you'd be failing to lose weight at such low calories, although my best guess from experience (without wanting to sound mean), is that you're miscounting, and probably quite badly.

Also, using my own experience/instincts, what I doubt is happening is what some bro-scientists say is when your body goes into 'starvation mode' and holds onto the fat... Think about it, why aren't starving children in third world countries all fat then? If you're eating less than you're burning, you WILL lose weight. To my understanding, it's physically impossible to be in a caloric deficit while gaining weight.
 
I'm 51 and the way I stay lean is eating 3 meals per day only. Each meal is about 600-700 calories (approximate from routine meals and eating). BUT I do not eat any grains or starches or sugar. If I have some fruit it will be berries or occasional banana post WO which is breakfast because I train early in the AM. Ditching all the grains & starches and of course sugar many years ago was the best thing I ever did. I tried Ori's diet some time ago and it worked but I feel better eating 3 meals per day. I do occasionally fast which is 18-24 hours for me. I also don't eat anything after my dinner meal which is around 6pm and won't eat until after I train about 7:30am the following morning. I space my meals out as well about 5 hours between. If I want to gain some weight and keep fat gain to a minimum I will add calories....say about 100 per meal. I don't weigh anything I just kind of approximate and see how I respond. I've been doing it this way for a long time so I can guess the calorie, fat, carb and protein content. Guess I'm a food geek...lol. But anyway it works and I'm never really starving hungry, no energy crashes, no cravings and I enjoy my meals.
 
I'd like to recommend the book "Why We Get Fat and What To Do About It", by Gary Taubes.
Mr. Taubes discusses the history and science of a consistently successful weight loss method.
I believe it is commonly called a ketogenic diet.
I've lost 32 lb since March 23 without counting calories, fasting, or trying to curb my appetite in any way other than by eating as recommended whenever I feel hungry.
It's been easy, and it's simple.
The book shoots some holes in modern mainstream nutritional dogma, and the science is backed up with references to peer reviewed research.
Respectfully,
Uncle Mike
 
Defiantly could stand to under eat more gently. Sometimes its an apple coffee and sod all for 20hrs.

As for total calories I HAVE let it go to sub 1500 but only experimentally. I know less isn't more. I always make a point of eating till I'm happy in my window. I don't put away the 4500cal my heart rate tracker thing says I should but I think that it's being a little optimistic.

I don't mean clean as in less cake and icecream I mean clean as in complaint to all the WD detail (food pairings, fuel cycling, introducing food and flavours gradually and the other bits and pieces).

Stress and sleep is defo an issue (offers to babysit appreciated) but I do try. Meditation and relaxation exercises are a game changer.

I feel tired and slow if I eat anything heavier than fruit and yoghurt in the day after the majority of the last 2 yrs in the WD.

It's just so frustrating to be doing something that worked so well for me and everyone who I've seen try it without further success.
 
Hey Richard...
You've implied some things in your original post, but for clarification... What are your exact goals?
Do you have a baseline, and a target condition?
 
Richard, obviously you and I are different, but to be honest more often than not my undereating phase consists of an apple or two, a banana or two, and coffee whenever I can sit down to have one. That's it (as well as a post workout whey protein shake or cottage cheese). I feel okay doing that but then I'm used to it, having been doing that for nearly a year.

I think the vital thing that Ori Hofmekler outlines that some overlook is the food combos that you have hinted at being more diligent with. Do it. Have days of high carb and days of high fat (more high fat if your goal is lean-ness in my experience), but don't have high amounts of both in one day. Pick a fuel for the day and stick to it. If you have high fat AND high carb intake all at once for days at a time (what I call 'calorie circuses'), then I find all hell breaks loose in terms of fat gain.
 
Steve Freides said:
sounds like you're overdoing the under-eating
Click to expand...
This could be my issue, if not...
Harry Westgate said:
(without wanting to sound mean), is that you're miscounting, and probably quite badly
Click to expand...
then this could be it. But I am pretty sure I am not over eating.

I have been on a caloric deficit, extreme low carb diet last 3, 4 weeks. However i gained 4 pounds during. I don't know how to explain it. I have been logging and tracking. I haven't read WD. Looks like that's what most here does, perhaps I will give that a try.
 
Abdul Rasheed said:
have been on a caloric deficit, extreme low carb diet last 3, 4 weeks. However i gained 4 pounds during. I don't know how to explain it. I have been logging and tracking. I haven't read WD. Looks like that's what most here does, perhaps I will give that a try.
Click to expand...
The Warrior Diet book is certainly worth reading. It is about periods of under- and over-eating, and not about fasting.

Combining a calorie deficit with a very low carb diet is _not_ something I would recommend; do one, do the other, or do both, but I don't think they need to be combined, and combining them sounds a formula for misery to me.

-S-
 
I second, third, fourth, and fifth everything Mr. Freides just said. The Warrior Diet is a great read, from a philosophical standpoint as much as a nutritional one. Ori's explanation of the true meaning of 'romance' is probably the biggest lesson I took from the whole book. Read it and you'll know what I'm on about.

Also, please implement what Steve said in his second paragraph there. Nutrition and fitness should enhance your life, not detract from it. You'll make yourself so damn miserable eating the way you described there. Trust me, I've done it before, and it doesn't do any good at all long term. Brutal, quick fixes yield temporary results at best when it comes to nutrition. You need something sustainable, just as you do with exercise. As an example, many of us here do S&S virtually every day because it gives more than it takes. Use that same approach with food.

Please take this on board.
 
Thanks for that, I needed it @Steve Freides , @Harry Westgate . It wasn't deliberate attempt to create the deficit per se. When I tracked (reluctantly started it using myfitnesspal, hated it, lately i stopped counting), I found out that I am not eating the 2000 calories per day. 2400 is my par for weight maintenance. Per my calculation, approximately 500-1000 calories short every day. The attempt to eat extreme low carbs to hit ketosis was temporary anyways, to see how I respond to it. I wasn't suffering or felt tired during, interestingly. I ordered the WD book which I have been wanting to do so, for a long time.

I found this to be a good point too.
Snowman said:
Intermittent fasting and caloric restriction tend to be less effective in people who are stressed and/or don't get enough sleep
Click to expand...
 
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