simple and sinister builds beyond belief!


Level 1 Valued Member

In all seriousness, what is your current strength program to complement your martial arts? Is it S&S or ROP? Share with us your experiences, what you like and dislike with the program? Has it helped?

For me, the secret of S&S is it consistently "raises my minimum" strength to support my goals (without crushing me).



Level 6 Valued Member
Hè dave. The problem is that i switch to much i think. Its because i have no clue what to do.
Years ago i trained heavy with a barbell etc. But i dont like it that much.
Since we moved to another house i dont have room for weights. So i tried bodyweight etc.
But On a certain point you have to do so much sets that it was to much time consuming.
I train martial arts for Almost 40 years Now and i think i am quitte good at it. Still teach 2 times a week.
But when i comes to make myself a good strenght/conditioning routine i am a complete newbe.
I am a little bit onder but want to stay in shape. Beiing leaner and strong.
I dont have to look big anymore ;-)
And of course i dont have hours to workout witha fulltime Job, family etc.
I think the greatest problem is that i always read that martial artist have to be strong and train deadlifts. Bench presses and squats.
Deel in my heart i know its not true.
I have manager to do well without it.
But still. Keep my body strong and leaner is not only good for martial arts but for normall like to.
I am 1,87, weight about 87 kilo so not to fat or think.
Hope you can gave some advice


Level 9 Valued Member
Hi, I am not lifting, but did a lot of "working out" without a real structure.
It was hard at first to stick to 3-5×kb practice/week and stop doing this and that, no focus, no plan, less motivation. But it is great now, short workouts and feeling stronger, almost always happy to practice swings and TGU. I can combine this routine with other sports, which I do not consider as "workout" anylonger but fun and enjoyment.
I do a plan inspired/guided by T. Reifkind.But keep the basics of s&s in mind.
I really hope I can stick to a "plan" for the first time, because EGO is often whispering "do more...try harder...push it...".
I do not know if this post tells you anything, but...I tried :)


Level 6 Valued Member
Hè gergirl2, Yes. That ego thing. Maybay thats a part if my problem to.
I know you cant have it all but i still want that.
Stickie to one programm would maybay be very good for me.
The problem is that when i train martial arts On my own i dont have a structure to.
One Day i start with a run, another day skipping, sometimes shadowboxing.
I Just train On my feelings. I mix it up everytime. That could be the problem with stickie to a routine i think because i train for years that way.


Level 9 Valued Member
Same to me, but I plan ahead and really stick to my plan. The results are a motivation!
It feels "pure" and you can ease your mind and stop planning and overthinking. I never have seen me there, but I force myself, and forcing decreases :)


Level 6 Valued Member
Maybay its indeed time to follow a strict programm when I do supplementary training.
The problem is, when I use kettlebell for a week I miss the pull-ups and dips and push-ups. But when I do these I miss the kettlebell.
But maybay just make a start with S&S for a few weeks. Then I can see how it works etc. Thanks for your advice


Level 9 Valued Member
Why don't you just combine both? Do a lighter kb workout (lighter bell, more speed?) and do your bw stuff afterwards. If you do s&s 5x/week, than 2x kb+bw is doable?! I found a compromise for my kb and bouldering.


Level 9 Valued Member
Ah...and have you thought of doing circuits? They might not be welcome by everyone here but they gave my a good start to getting off doing everything.
1. 20 swings, 10 push ups, 10 pull ups
2. 18 swings, 8 pu, 10 pu
3. 16 swings, 6pu, 6 pu
.10 swings, 2 pu, 2 pu

just an idea ;)


Level 6 Valued Member
Hey gergirl2, thanks for thinking together with me ;-) seems like a nice workout. EasyJet On paper but i think its hard when you do it.
I have read that some prison workouts start with 20 burpees then 19, 18 etc.
After that pushups. Pullup etc.
But your routine seems simple and its worth a try.
Thanks man

Harald Motz

Level 6 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
@ thegame: the stance you lift the most, in my opinion is where you feel the strongest, in which you can wedge yourself the best and build up the most tension in your body right at the start, while having great posture. (butt back, vertical shins, straight back, lats engaged, shouders back and down...) When you have yours, take some respectable time with it, and maybe change later. There are deadlifters who pull amost heels together on the one end, and ultra wide Sumo almost touching the plates with the toes on the other end.

@ wim:Hè guys, i was wondering if simple and sinister would be a good supplement for my martial arts training. I dont know how to say it but it seems to simple.
simple and sinister is heavily influenced by Steve Baccari who trains elite fighters.

Maybay its because i dont know better then to put weight in the bar everytime its to light and thats the way to get stronger but if i read these storys here it seems that everton is getting stronger in other exercises to.
When you start as written... you first build up the volume with a given weight to 100 swings (maybe you start two handed, introducing 1handed til all are 1handed) and 10 getups. Then you let it happen, that you need less rest between sets, but that does not need or should or can in every session. After quite some CONSISTENT time of practice you get to the time marks, then the author says it is almost time to introduce a heavier bell for a set or two. So you see there is plenty room for progression, which WILL make you stronger.

As i said i am a martial artist in the frist placebo and want a good and simple routine that makes me stronger (notice, i dont want to have to big of muscles) and leaner. Answer: do s&s consistenly until you own the simple Standards.

The problem is that i switch to much i think. Its because i have no clue what to do.
Answer: when you switch to much, than it is your problem. When you have no clue what to do, than take for example s&s trust the program while it is written by one of a Kind of a great mind when it comes to make people, even elite athletes stronger. Pavel glued so many glues together into a great program I know I can dig until can't dig anymore.

What is the secret of s and s? Answer: Dave gave already the answer.

I read for example that kettlebell strong is a good routine to get stronger.
Answer: I for example read that to. But I do not know really, because I have no experience with it, and do not have a copy. Given the fact you by now only have the 20k and the 24k, and as far as I am informed kb strong is a double kb program, I think the decision between the two programs could gravitate more to s&s.

So my conclusion would be... if you not aready have, then get a copy of s&s, read it, practice, read one more time, practice some more. Trust the program and trust yourself to trust a great proven program that will build you beyond belief!


Level 6 Valued Member
Hè harald, you have answer all my questions. Thanks!! I will follow your advice and will start simple and sinister. I have the book so i will read it carefully. Thanks for answering my questions.

Harald Motz

Level 6 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
hello wim, great decision. From all what you said it will fit your needs perfectly. Stay the course until you get the 32kg bell and then own it. Be consistent, patient, use aways perfect form, listen to your body (maybe with a heart rate monitor), practice to calm your breath down while resting, and you will make steady progress and get one or two clues about proper training. When you are not already doing it, Keep a Training log, which gives motivation to stay at it.
The number one thing is CONSISTENCY but not if something is going wrong/hurts.

With the warm up a session lasts anywhere from 20min - 40min.

It would be great for me and others to hear another great experience...


Level 1 Valued Member
Harald just spoke what was in my mind.

For the record I have made so much progress with S&S that now i am exclusively doing it.Currently doing monthly template written by pavel (from simple in sinister).

S&S/PM are the programs which are perfect already. one way to judge is to do your program for 4 weeks and then do S&S for the next 4, then evaluate.

Also stay with 32 kg for few months, all your fitness problems will disappear.

Like great coach Dan John says 'swings,goblet,getup for all your needs'.
Want more add deadlift and press.

I want to thank pavel for giving such a great template in from S&S.

Harald Motz

Level 6 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
currently I am doing another program provided by Strongfirst. But I know there will be a time I go back to....simple and sinister. Speaking of Dan John: "With this Kettlebell in my bedroom I can prepare for the nationals!".


Level 6 Valued Member
Hè guys, thanks again. The more i think about it the more i like it ;-)
Thanks again for the good advice!


Level 7 Valued Member
Hey Wim,

if you miss things like Pullups why not integrate them into your warmup?
For example my S&S warmup looks like this:

3-4 Rounds of...
50% of Maxrep Pullups (eg. if you can do 10 do 5)
50% of Maxrep Pushups
5-10 Goblet Squats
10 Bulgarian Goat Belly Swings (by Dan John, look them up if you want)

Every two weeks i test my maxrep on the Pullups & Pushups and adjust the reps for my warmup.
Use the GtG method here -> The sets should be easy so they don't cut into your recovery or ability to perform the main workout.

Like you i didn't want to leave out things like the Pullups, but i got good advice here in the forum to keep it simple and just stay with the program.
By adding them to the warmup i'm able to keep my numbers (if you don't use it you lose it) or even increase them without making them my priority.

FYI at first i tried to combine S&S and the Fighter Pullup Program by doing the Pullups in the morning and S&S later in the day. The Pullups in the morning felt very heavy and i didn't progress at all. After leaving them out my S&S workouts improved dramatically and after adding the Pullups to my warmup (did that 2 weeks ago) my S&S workout still feel fantastic AND my Pullup number even increased from 6 to 8. Sure 2 Reps is not big but it's still progress.


Level 6 Valued Member
Hello ago, seems like a very good idea.
The only problem that i have now is when to do my martial arts workout.
I assume i cant do that after s and s?
What if i do s and s 3 times a week? Would it still work?
Or maybay i have to make time in the morning but i have a very fysical job so i find it hard to start with that before work. I am not the youngest anymore ;-)


Level 7 Valued Member
iirc in S&S Pavel says that if you have a physically demanding job, sport or other strength program you could cut down the S&S workouts to 2 per week and still make progress.


Level 6 Valued Member
Okay. Thanks kettlebelepha.
I think i can manage 3 times, the problem is that from the little time i have to train martial arts. I still have to teach it 2 times a week to.
But the routine doen take to much time so i have to do it. I already tried the swings with my 20 kilo and it felt great.
I havent done the tgu because last weekend i have participate in a strongman run and Now i have a Light blessure On my inner tigh but that will soon be fixed. As i said, the swings felt good. Harder then i thought ;-)
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