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Old Forum Simple and Sinister Program

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I have a couple of questions about the Simple and Sinister program I just started officially on August 10: I am doing 100 swings a day with a 24 kg right now and plan on moving up to a 32 kg in September. I am doing 10 swings EMOM for 10 minutes right now and wanted to know if that was okay or if I should be taking more time between my sets or if I should increase my reps? Also, on the TGU I am doing 5 X 1 per arm as the program stipulates but again wanted to ask about the amount of rest I should take between each one. I notice after I do 2 per arm I need a little more rest because it starts getting a little shaky during parts of my TGU so I take about a 1:30 minute rest before starting again. Should I be recovering fully, partially, or go from left arm to right arm until I finish all 5 per arm? Thank you.
 
For the swings, you want to go when you are completely fresh. Browse through this long but insightful thread:
http://www.strongfirst.com/topic/using-a-heart-rate-monitor-for-the-data-averse/

Even if you don't feel like being nitpicky and using a HRM, you probably should rest more than you are used to if you are doing S&S 5 times a week as suggested in the book, with occasional challenges with the clock (like what you are doing right now), unless you can do EMOM, starting each set fresh and breathing easily already.

The TGU's should be alternating sides. Look at the paragraph toward the end of the "Program Minimum Remastered" chapter that begins "Start the get-up session with your strong arm." There you will see that you are alternating sides. I see how that can be easy to miss because multiple times before it just mentions "Five sets of one on one side and five on the other," without actually specifying the alternation.
 
What means EMOM?

And did you read the book? I am asking, because it is specified there how you should progress in weight and rest between sets.
Have a look at the chapter about the goals and how to reach them as well as the chapter about breathing.
 
Victor - only passing on some bits of info that I've learned doing S&S. I haven't conquered the simple goal, so I'm not an experienced user and so my take on it is only my take....

Like you are doing right now, I did the same: using a clock, emotm and decreasing the rest periods. As jca has said, if you are fresh then all is fine...so in one sense the clock is a guide to where you are. However if you are using it to start the next set, come what may, ready or not, then it isn't really the way to go. Shift your mindset to breathing, shaking out the tension and not to rush due to time pressure. Be internal. All very easy on paper, totally different in reality. I know I rushed the 24 and didn't really get the methodology of S&S until very recently, despite my woeful attempts at trying to understand it. Unlearning is a lot harder to do than merely learning on a blank slate. So even though I was trying to be mindful, I wasn't and as I knocked off seconds from the clock, the start of each set was a signal for me to start regardless of how I felt. It is possible to do it that way and in a sense easier to do with lighter bells but, whilst not wrong, it isn't right either. Not suggesting that you want to use a heart rate monitor but it has really helped me curb my enthusiasm and gain a much better understanding of the method within S&S. So, yes, you can use a clock but not to the detriment of your readiness - the latter is more important than the former. Hope that helps.
 
To reiterate what Alistair said I wouldn't worry too much about the clock.

I found I still made progress with longer rests between sets (probably better progress because I could keep each swing powerful), I would only push the timing every now and again. I recently achieved the simple goal but doing the lot in 15 minutes would still gas me. Alistair is also spot on about the importance of the breathing, that chapter in the book is priceless IMO. In a normal session I try to nose breathe only throughout and keep my heart rate 'aerobic' (see other threads for opinions on this).

On the TGUs I never rested too long between each rep, mainly because I concentrated on technique and doing the move nice and slowly. Alternating arms means that your left arm gets a nice long rest while right is working. It is also a lift I would personally never push close to its limit. After struggling with the jump between 16 and 24 kg I then decided to go through a 28 kg bell rather than jump from 24 to 32 directly (little bit of a deviation from plan). I also found the transition easier if I spent a few weeks over-repping (ie 12 or 14 reps) with the smaller bell before moving up.

I am not an experienced user either - just 18 months into KBs so please don't take my opinion as gospel.
 
Karl, well put:

"I found I still made progress with longer rests between sets (probably better progress because I could keep each swing powerful), I would only push the timing every now and again. I recently achieved the simple goal."
 
Here is where I am right now...
I am currently doing S&S 3 days per week and using the 40 kg for all movements. I use a clock to keep myself honest; otherwise, I will take much longer than I think for rest times. Right now, I have worked my way down to doing all 10 sets of swings EMOM, then rest for ~1:40 before starting TGUs. I am doing 1xL,R every 3 minutes, meaning that I give myself 3 full minutes to do 1 rep per side. But with the 16 minute time goal in mind, I do my reps on the minute, then use the remaining ~1:30 as an extended rest before moving to the next rep. I just want to make it clear that this where I am CURRENTLY. I will shorten rest periods once I feel that I am satisfactorily explosive through ALL swings, and steady and strong through ALL TGU. I currently feel good about all my movements, but usually I'll have one shaky TGU, or a few swings that are just not quite up to par, and I adjust based upon that. The first experiment will be shaving 5,10, or maybe even 15 seconds off of my swing rest times, or eliminating the extra minute rest between one set of TGU. It may take me a few weeks or longer, but progress is being made, and that is what matters.

Minute - Movement
0 - 10 Swings L
1 - 10 Swings R
2 - 10 Swings L
3 - 10 Swings R
4 - 10 Swings L
5 - 10 Swings R
6 - 10 Swings L
7 - 10 Swings R
8 - 10 Swings L
9 - 10 Swings R
10 - REST
11 - TGU 1xL
12 - TGU 1xR
13 - REST
14 - TGU 1xL
15 - TGU 1xR
16 - REST
17 - TGU 1xL
18 - TGU 1xR
19 - REST
20 - TGU 1xL
21 - TGU 1xR
22 - REST
23 - TGU 1xL
24 - TGU 1xR
 
Thank you all for this great input and it will be adhered to. Leon I did read through the Simple program of the book but went to a training session a couple of weeks ago that Dr.Craig Marker was running where we worked on form and technique for some of the kettlebell movements and noticed the workout was doing swings EMOM and thought that was how S&S was supposed to be done. I actually want to take more time between sets for the strength development and to get quality swings so that is what I will start doing now as well as taking adequate rest between TGUs. I will be moving to the 32 kg in September for my 2 handed swings as I really feel the 24 kg is a little too light now.
 
as the S&S program is made up of single hand swings and TGUs, once the 24 feels "a little too light" you should stay with the 24kg and progress to single hand swings. For reasons pointed out in the book, the single hand swing is a better promoter of strength, than the two hand swing (recruiting more muscle). if your goals are more in the realm of becoming a high rep swing junkee then maybe working into heavier 2H swings might benefit you. but on the whole, a solid 1H swing will help with snatches, cleans and high rep no rest swing sessions better than the 2H. the sooner you get to 1H swings the better.
 
Like Marchese said, switch to 1-H swings.
I have enough hip power and grip strength to swing the 48 for sets of 10, but 1-H swings with the 32 still kick my a#@. IMO the limiting factor for most people are the lats and traps (keep the shoulder in the socket) and 1-H swings adress that issue much more than 2-H swings.
 
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