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Kettlebell Simple & Sinister, Amazon, and bits and pieces

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G-man

Level 4 Valued Member
Hello,

Just thought I would message here as most of my questions were written here and I don't know if everyone reads every section (I don't) so I figured better to say it here where I had the most posts made.

Amazon as you know, gave me a full refund on the book Simple and Sinister ($33 or so) as I never saw it.

This refund was done 10 days after I had received an email stating my book was delivered and I hadn't seen anything.

Anyway, 3 days after I got the refund, I get a pickup parcel slip in my post box. I go to post office and there it is, simple and sinister.

They told me the book arrived on 13th of April (which is when Amazon said I had received it) - Someone must of taken the slip out of the mail box and lost it or something because I never saw it and they said the one I brought in was a reminder that "Hey you had a book here last 2 weeks when are you getting it?"

So I contacted Amazon where I can return the book as I got my refund... The reason I asked that was because I got into barbell work.

I bought myself a half squat rack, olympic barbell, olympic cast iron plates, a flat commercial bench, gym flooring and yeah. Took advice of some people here not to worry too much about brands... and the fact I just got whatever I could afford I am glad I did, I feel absolutely amazing training and even this stuff wont break on me. So now I see the whole brand thing is really 'irrelevant' that I been chasing for over a year!

So because I decided to get into strength training (barbell work) I didn't need this kettlebell book anymore.

So I contacted Amazon asked them if i can return it to them, do the right thing since they did refund me the money and yet I did receive it... they told me I can keep the book and not to worry about it. That is there Good will for the fact I was honest and told them Hey I got your book... but I don't need it so I rather return it than pay for it a 2nd time.

So all in all, everything has worked out and I (no offence intended to anyone that loves KB training) am glad I did not buy kettlebells, because they would be sitting in the corner collecting dust. I absolutely love bench pressing, deadlifting, squatting, over head pressing and barbell rowing.

It just feels 'real' to me, like lifting real weight. Dunno, I was always an Arnold Swarzenegger fan and that Golden Era of Gym training back in Golds gym... well, yeah, barbell is where it is at for me.

I guess in end, no point doing a program (even if it is good) if you don't enjoy it. There are many ways to train and what I learned from this is, pick the training program you will enjoy doing as that is the one that will work, the rest you will get bored and it wont work because you will quit.

For me... its barbell work not kettlebell work so I'm just happy i got a refund on something I wont be using and happy I didn't go buy those rogue bells which would of been a huge waste of money. So again, thanks to the people that told me to get a cheap gym and start with that (Cheap kettlebells in that case) i applied that principle to cheap bar/rack etc... and now I am having the time of my life. Feel absolutely amazing....

Arnold Swarznegger, here i come!
 

Shawn90

Level 5 Valued Member
Good for you. It's better to enjoy your training, so you keep at it longer !

Of course there are many more great programs opposed to simple and sinister. As somone who trained with barbells and dumbells for roughly 10 years I understand the joy of using those. Personally I prefer kettlebells because I believe they give me more bang for my buck ( real world strength )
 

Pavel Macek

Level 9 Valued Member
Master Certified Instructor
First option: S&S twice a week - one of the best things you can do for your barbell work, to keep healthy, lift safer, and heavier.

Second option: few sets of swings before DL, goblet squats before BSQ, get-ups before BP. Or after.

Third option: give S&S to some of your friends - few months later, she/he will thank you.
 
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Arryn Grogan

Level 6 Valued Member
Elite Certified Instructor
How do you know you prefer barbell work over kettlebell if you didn't even try the program...?

Anyway, kettlebell training isn't the best way to train. I have no idea what the best way to train is. Is it a fantastic and versatile tool that will make you stronger, mobile, and resilient? Absolutely. As @Pavel Macek mentioned above, I highly recommend you not get rid of that fantastic book too soon, but incorporate it into your barbell work. Kettlebells and barbells go together very well.
 

Ryan T

Level 6 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
How do you know you prefer barbell work over kettlebell if you didn't even try the program...?

Agreed.

First option: S&S twice a week - one of the best things you can do for your barbell work, to keep healthy, lift safer, and heavier.

Have you been able to give KBs a chance at some point? I think it's always relevant to what your goals are. I like @Pavel Macek suggestion here. Gives you the chance to break in kettbell practice to determine if you think it will help support your health and wellness goals.
 

Papa Georgio

Level 6 Valued Member
Ok everybody. We need to back off. Maybe G-man is married and he don't want a bunch of chicks hanging all over him & such. We should respect G-man and his happy marriage. ;)

G-Man, Thanks for warning us about Amazon's cruddy order management.
 

MikeTheBear

Level 7 Valued Member
no offence intended to anyone that loves KB training

I found nothing remotely offensive about your post. I've always said that the best type of training is the type of training that you will do consistently, and the type of training that you will do consistently is generally going to be training you enjoy.

What I found curious about your post is why you bothered to write it in the first place. Did you think folks here would try to convince you otherwise? Not me. Kettlebells are a training tool, not a religion. In fact, I never liked it when people who enjoyed training with kettlebells got a bit "cultish" in their exuberance. It just made the rest of us who enjoyed training with kettlebells look bad.

Perhaps we will meet again in the Barbell section of the Strongfirst forum.
 

G-man

Level 4 Valued Member
MikeTheBear - I wrote it because I been around this forum for a year and as others pointed out in other threads I made over the time period "Have you lifted yet, are you doing anything yet? Your still chasing brands, you could of gotten anything and been stronger by now instead of worrying about what equipment brand to buy" and the like... + I made a post about Amazon elsewhere, and just thought I would clear everything up as to what has happened in both directions in 1 post (this one).

Now how do I know whether I would like KB or not? I did a KB program for a day with all the movements, and I just can't see myself doing it. It is great, it does incorporate plenty movement for mobility etc... but I can get mobility/cardio etc in a different way and strength in via the barbell (which can be loaded a lot more than a KB producing more results in that direction).

I liked the concept of KB training, power, strength, mobility, cardio (high rep work) - but I always felt "its not a bar though". So I just couldn't seeing myself consistently doing getups, swings etc when I knew I would always be looking over my shoulder "Wheres that barbell". The whole reason I got onto the KB thing in the first place was because of what people recommended here a year ago. The training provides mobility and cardio and strength... but, I can do that stuff (cardio/mobility) on the side of training regardless what program I do, it doesn't have to come in the form of a gym program. I can always do jogging, skipping, jumpin jacks, etc etc for cardio (no need bells or bar) and I can always do stretches and other things for mobility. So from that angle, I can get everything anyway with or without KB. And for raw strength, barbell is the way to go and doing those extra things on the side will also provide the cardio and mobility the bar won't. So I am still getting all 3 in a format I enjoy rather than a format I don't see myself doing consistently.

So I went with what I knew I liked rather than what may have been good.
 

KIWI5

Level 4 Valued Member
Sounds like you've made a decision that will keep you enjoying your training- that is very important. I love both KBs and Barbell training- so I've designed my own program that allows me to do both. When I am under extreme time pressure- I find that a 5-10 minute blast on the old KB swings is hard to beat for strength and conditioning.
 

Nate B

Level 1 Valued Member
What equipment did you end up getting?

I am about ready to pull the trigger on the $200 300lb barbell set from Dick's and either the squat rack from Dick's or the $250 power rack Amazon sells. My plan is to incorporate Deadlifts and presses with Simple and Sinister like the Even Easier Strength paper or work on the Starting Strength plan with 2 days of S&S when I get a squat rack. Either way, I'm giving S&S a solid 6 or 8 weeks by itself to gauge progress.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
Hello,

Just thought I would message here as most of my questions were written here and I don't know if everyone reads every section (I don't) so I figured better to say it here where I had the most posts made.

Amazon as you know, gave me a full refund on the book Simple and Sinister ($33 or so) as I never saw it.

This refund was done 10 days after I had received an email stating my book was delivered and I hadn't seen anything.

Anyway, 3 days after I got the refund, I get a pickup parcel slip in my post box. I go to post office and there it is, simple and sinister.

They told me the book arrived on 13th of April (which is when Amazon said I had received it) - Someone must of taken the slip out of the mail box and lost it or something because I never saw it and they said the one I brought in was a reminder that "Hey you had a book here last 2 weeks when are you getting it?"

So I contacted Amazon where I can return the book as I got my refund... The reason I asked that was because I got into barbell work.

I bought myself a half squat rack, olympic barbell, olympic cast iron plates, a flat commercial bench, gym flooring and yeah. Took advice of some people here not to worry too much about brands... and the fact I just got whatever I could afford I am glad I did, I feel absolutely amazing training and even this stuff wont break on me. So now I see the whole brand thing is really 'irrelevant' that I been chasing for over a year!

So because I decided to get into strength training (barbell work) I didn't need this kettlebell book anymore.

So I contacted Amazon asked them if i can return it to them, do the right thing since they did refund me the money and yet I did receive it... they told me I can keep the book and not to worry about it. That is there Good will for the fact I was honest and told them Hey I got your book... but I don't need it so I rather return it than pay for it a 2nd time.

So all in all, everything has worked out and I (no offence intended to anyone that loves KB training) am glad I did not buy kettlebells, because they would be sitting in the corner collecting dust. I absolutely love bench pressing, deadlifting, squatting, over head pressing and barbell rowing.

It just feels 'real' to me, like lifting real weight. Dunno, I was always an Arnold Swarzenegger fan and that Golden Era of Gym training back in Golds gym... well, yeah, barbell is where it is at for me.

I guess in end, no point doing a program (even if it is good) if you don't enjoy it. There are many ways to train and what I learned from this is, pick the training program you will enjoy doing as that is the one that will work, the rest you will get bored and it wont work because you will quit.

For me... its barbell work not kettlebell work so I'm just happy i got a refund on something I wont be using and happy I didn't go buy those rogue bells which would of been a huge waste of money. So again, thanks to the people that told me to get a cheap gym and start with that (Cheap kettlebells in that case) i applied that principle to cheap bar/rack etc... and now I am having the time of my life. Feel absolutely amazing....

Arnold Swarznegger, here i come!
No arguments here. I think you're doing exactly the right thing! As for myself, being a judo wrestler for 30 years, I see the value in the kind of "athletic" training (I'll call it) that kettlebells provide. I get what you might term "resistance cardio" and also violent movements, and challenges to my balance from the 1 handed swings and the Turkish Getups of the S&S program. But yes, indeed, I do go beyond this for "pure strength". I have a barbell with 300lbs on it which I lift, and also a fancy chinning bar and gymnastics rings, let alone steel maces of a few different weights. I also press the kettlebells for absolute strength training. While S&S "can" stand alone as a full program for health and athletic fitness & strength, it need not stand alone. It can form part of a larger picture. Still, for me, it's the base of my keeping strong and healthy.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
I found nothing remotely offensive about your post. I've always said that the best type of training is the type of training that you will do consistently, and the type of training that you will do consistently is generally going to be training you enjoy.

What I found curious about your post is why you bothered to write it in the first place. Did you think folks here would try to convince you otherwise? Not me. Kettlebells are a training tool, not a religion. In fact, I never liked it when people who enjoyed training with kettlebells got a bit "cultish" in their exuberance. It just made the rest of us who enjoyed training with kettlebells look bad.

Perhaps we will meet again in the Barbell section of the Strongfirst forum.
Good point. It's like when people talk to me about martial arts and expect me to say that judo is God's gift to combat arts. Instead, I explain that it's a compromise among three things: self-defence, healthy exercise, and frankly speaking entertainment. If you want to basically "kick butt" I'd frankly recommend getting into some hard core Karate. But, be prepared to spend long hours hardening your fists against wood and stuff like that, and... you really want to kill someone with your fists, really??? But in any case, no, judo is not the best martial art, but it's popular for a reason, and you can always supplement it with training in other things (which I have done.) Same thing for kettlebells. Kettlebells are never going to compete with pure weight for strength training. My 48kg bell is still far lighter than my 300lbs barbell, and frankly speaking my own humble body of 100kg. But can you do asymmetrical exercises like the TGU with a loaded barbell? Not so easy. What about violent swings? Again, not so easy. Now, can I do curls with a kettlebell, yes! Just as heavy as you'd normally do with a barbell. I guess in sum, a kettlebell is like a dumbbell but with the important added factor of swings attached. I really do think swings are fantastic exercise. They are violent yet safe - hard to find exercises like this.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
MikeTheBear - I wrote it because I been around this forum for a year and as others pointed out in other threads I made over the time period "Have you lifted yet, are you doing anything yet? Your still chasing brands, you could of gotten anything and been stronger by now instead of worrying about what equipment brand to buy" and the like... + I made a post about Amazon elsewhere, and just thought I would clear everything up as to what has happened in both directions in 1 post (this one).

Now how do I know whether I would like KB or not? I did a KB program for a day with all the movements, and I just can't see myself doing it. It is great, it does incorporate plenty movement for mobility etc... but I can get mobility/cardio etc in a different way and strength in via the barbell (which can be loaded a lot more than a KB producing more results in that direction).

I liked the concept of KB training, power, strength, mobility, cardio (high rep work) - but I always felt "its not a bar though". So I just couldn't seeing myself consistently doing getups, swings etc when I knew I would always be looking over my shoulder "Wheres that barbell". The whole reason I got onto the KB thing in the first place was because of what people recommended here a year ago. The training provides mobility and cardio and strength... but, I can do that stuff (cardio/mobility) on the side of training regardless what program I do, it doesn't have to come in the form of a gym program. I can always do jogging, skipping, jumpin jacks, etc etc for cardio (no need bells or bar) and I can always do stretches and other things for mobility. So from that angle, I can get everything anyway with or without KB. And for raw strength, barbell is the way to go and doing those extra things on the side will also provide the cardio and mobility the bar won't. So I am still getting all 3 in a format I enjoy rather than a format I don't see myself doing consistently.

So I went with what I knew I liked rather than what may have been good.
100% correct.

A kettlebell is more difficult to use than a barbell, and takes (I think?) more concentration, mobility and balance. These factors can make it annoying to use. Because I see the value of these challenges, I face them happily, but indeed it's far easier for me to do bodyweight exercises like dips and chinups, or simpler movements like deadlifts and presses. Haha, but... again, I know the importance of strength in a chaotic environment from my judo life, and so this affects my training principles.
 

jef

I am a student of strength.
Certified Instructor
So I just couldn't seeing myself consistently doing getups, swings etc when I knew I would always be looking over my shoulder "Wheres that barbell".
(...)
So I went with what I knew I liked rather than what may have been good.
I am with you on this one. You want to train for max strength, because this is what you like, then the barbell is probably the best way to go.

First option: S&S twice a week - one of the best things you can do for your barbell work, to keep healthy, lift safer, and heavier.

Second option: few sets of swings before DL, goblet squats before BSQ, get-ups before BP. Or after.
As someone who is more into barbells than kettlebells, I second this.
I actually started S&S as a supplement to a 3-days barbell program, twice a week (per the book). It was light and did not progress as fast as a full time S&S, but it was good for "variety days". It taught me things that carried over to barbell work (back position, lats engagement, shoulder packing...) and kept me mobile.
I also sometimes did some (light) prying goblet squats between sets of barbell squat, swings after deadlift...
Both tools can feed each other.

Whatever your choice, enjoy your training and its effect, and see you in the barbell forum!
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
I guess in end, no point doing a program (even if it is good) if you don't enjoy it. There are many ways to train and what I learned from this is, pick the training program you will enjoy doing as that is the one that will work, the rest you will get bored and it wont work because you will quit.

We could have a long conversation about that. Speaking from my own perspective, I have goals, and I enjoy achieving them more than I care about whether or not I enjoy my current programming.

I think goal setting can be an important addition to the way many people train, because the training is no longer about just "staying in shape," it's about meeting the SFG-I standards, or ROP press standard, or Simple, or your first PL meet, or that double-bodyweight deadlift. For me, it's about getting better. Perhaps it comes from my career in music - having mostly taught, I am now performing more than ever, and I want to be better at it. (And I want to always be a better teacher, too, and always have.) The same goes for my lifting - I want to accomplish things I cannot yet do, and that's what drives my training: what training will get me from where I am to where I want to be?

JMO, YMMV.

-S-
 

MikeTheBear

Level 7 Valued Member
Speaking from my own perspective, I have goals, and I enjoy achieving them more than I care about whether or not I enjoy my current programming.

Interesting, although I would argue that it would be the rare case for most people if there were a huge disconnect between the goal and the steps needed to achieve the goal. I suppose it would show up much more in fat loss situations. In my case, I hate dieting, but I enjoy training. Most people don't enjoy either.
 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
There is probably a fairly broad continuum here. Between intrinsically liking something and doing something because it is required (or at least the most efficient way) to meet a particular goal(s)


For the most part over the years I have really enjoyed my training. There are times however when I haven't enjoyed it one little bit, but I did it anyway because it was aligned with my goals. A simple example for me is physiotherapy. Several times in my career I have had to do extensive physiotherapy. Enjoyable? Not at all. Necessary to reach my goals? Absolutely.
 
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