TedM
Level 6 Valued Member
This is 100% the right attitude and approach!
Simple & Sinister - General discussion
- Thread starter SUOMI-PUKU
- Start date
LoneRider
Level 6 Valued Member
@Steve Freides this sounds like a great sort of program. What sort of programming do you use for your deadlifts and presses?
Pavel.Kosenkov
Level 5 Valued Member
A 2 part question:
1. Folks, did anyone do timed getup practice?
5,10,15,20 min of getups?
What are your rest periods?
Also - getup is a strength exercise. For me at least, a talk test is of no use - I need my strength to recover.
I found myself doing getup every 2 minutes, and I was thinking resting even longer.
How do you do them?
2. Goblet squats. I was doing 32kg for 5,10,15 reps in 3 sets during my warmup. Later, I was trying to OASW 24kg for sets of 5, on a talk test.
Though those squats feel great, I wonder - am I secrificing my main exercise progress (OASW, the program goal) for 15 rep squats? Those are the warmup, and program progression focuses on the swings.
1. Folks, did anyone do timed getup practice?
5,10,15,20 min of getups?
What are your rest periods?
Also - getup is a strength exercise. For me at least, a talk test is of no use - I need my strength to recover.
I found myself doing getup every 2 minutes, and I was thinking resting even longer.
How do you do them?
2. Goblet squats. I was doing 32kg for 5,10,15 reps in 3 sets during my warmup. Later, I was trying to OASW 24kg for sets of 5, on a talk test.
Though those squats feel great, I wonder - am I secrificing my main exercise progress (OASW, the program goal) for 15 rep squats? Those are the warmup, and program progression focuses on the swings.
1. I do sets of 2 - one on each side back to back - then get up and walk around for maybe a minute or so then do my next pair. Rests get slightly longer as the sets stack up. I've found I need more rest as the weight goes up. I could knock out 10 gets ups with the 16kg back to back. Now I'm working mostly with the 24kg I find I need more rest. But agreed talk test doesn't work for me with get ups.
2. If you want to do more squatting, do it after your swings. The program is setup deliberately for power first then strength. The warmup squats are just that, a warmup. If it were me I would do the 3x5 goblets with a lighter bell as the warmup, then add 3-5 sets of 5 with the 32kg after swings and getups and monitor your recovery.
Pavel.Kosenkov
Level 5 Valued Member
Thanks. I had this idea about squats as well - I was aware that power exercises go first. That's why, I think, swings are before the getup.
I second your experience with the getup. My 24kg getups I do on 2 minutes. 2-3 rep partials with 24 as well.
5 reps with 32 are still very light. But I do notice - 15 reps is not about strength. It's breathing and controlling the tension. All reps are paused at the bottom, of course.
I hear you on the squats, I progressed my goblets to 20 reps on the 32kg which like you say is all about core stability. Not having any bells heavier than 32kg I've switched to double front squats which is definitely more challenging! I begun with 16+20kg to get 36kg to progress from 32kg and have worked up from there. now on double 24s If you want to build strength in the squat you need to find a more challenging variation which hits that 5 reps or lower range.
lais817
Level 7 Valued Member
1. I do the next getup when I'm sure I can complete the next one with form as good as the first one. Do yourself a favour and don't time them.
2. I'd keep the goblet squats to 3 sets of 5, with weight progression per Part 3:Sinister. Like you've realised, if you are trying to progress in S&S you need to prioritise the program as written, not adding extras on. It's "only" 15 reps @32kg, but that is almost 500kg extra per session you are moving.
I've had a similar journey with S&S, was super keen at the start, rushed the progression a bit by lying to or not understanding myself properly, got niggley injuries. Added crap on, program hopped a bit, did too much.
I think the problem for me (maybe you as well?) Is focussing on the end goal (Timed Simple) instead of what will get you to that point (Timeless sessions with slow steady progress).
It's a great program for learning about yourself more than anything.
As a smaller bloke, eat plenty of protein and slow down. Imagine where you will be 1 year from now if you make slow progress, compared to where you will be a year from now if you continue as you have been.
Pavel.Kosenkov
Level 5 Valued Member
Amazing advice, @lais817. Thank you, you are spot on with what you say.
@Symanoy , I see the point about the goblet squat. I think indeed, when time comes it's better to build up the squat with a double front squat. Even with uneven bells. I can't do double 24, but I can do 20+24, which is second best. Noted.
@Symanoy , I see the point about the goblet squat. I think indeed, when time comes it's better to build up the squat with a double front squat. Even with uneven bells. I can't do double 24, but I can do 20+24, which is second best. Noted.
Cyrus-II
Level 5 Valued Member
1. No. But I do sometimes do them slowly. Or pauses at each stage. I occasionally work on bottoms up presses with the 16KG, but I'm not there yet. I also like reverse getups. I'm in the awkward stage of progressing to the 32KG. So yesterday on each side was a 24KG, then a 32KG. I still had gas in the tank so the next three sets with the 24KG I did in reverse order with a clean and press, down. Floor press and back up. The when I'm lowering back to the rack I pause before it gets into the "pocket". This puts total time under tension for each rep at about 1:15. Sometimes I do left/right back to back. Sometimes I take a break between each rep. I just have learned to try and listen to my body.
2. Still randomly done. Just depending upon how I feel that day. Last week one session I did two sets with DFSQ using my 16KG and 24KG, more emphasis on the squat, less on the prying. This week though was more about the prying. This week I've used a 16KG, 24KG and 32KG for squats. Squatting is not my goal though. Progressing to simple in both swings and getups is.
james_1127
Level 6 Valued Member
As stated above one effective strategy I've found for improving getups is the reverse getup... You can handle more load eccentric than concentric and the roll to elbow can be tricky at first with a heavier bell! So I always mix 1/4 & 1/2 getups + reverse getups on heavy days... I want to "feel" the heavy bell going through all stages without having to worry at first if my roll to elbow is sufficient enough etc
SUOMI-PUKU
Level 6 Valued Member
Frequency has dropped a bit (still managed 1x a week to keep practice but doubt this is going to progress me!) due to trying to find 30 mins at a time for training. Toying with the idea of doing swings with the talk test and GTG get ups throughout the day.
Anyone else done similar?
Anyone else done similar?
I often split up swings and get ups and works well for me. About 15-20 minutes for each. I don’t see why spreading the get ups throughout the day wouldn’t work? Only consideration is warm up. Can your body handle that or do you need to get it moving first, particularly the shoulders.
Oskarand
Level 4 Valued Member
I love S&S. I reached Simple sometime back and tried the quick and dead. But I like the principles from S&S so went back to that. Currently doing 32 kg and will buy 40 kg later this year.
Do you guys think one can do S&S for life? I am 45 years old now, could this be my workout for the rest of my life?
And identify as a kettlebeller same way as runners are addicted to running and identify as runners...
Do you guys think one can do S&S for life? I am 45 years old now, could this be my workout for the rest of my life?
And identify as a kettlebeller same way as runners are addicted to running and identify as runners...
oukeith1
Level 6 Valued Member
You can definitely be a kettlebeller for life! I don’t know if I’d recommend only doing S&S as there are a lot of great moves to practice.
Adam R Mundorf
Level 6 Valued Member
I think you can but you definitely need to keep goals intrinsic longterm. Exercise because you enjoy the process and the way it makes you feel, not to hit anyone specific number or goal.
blad51
Level 8 Valued Member
You sure can.....
But in the future you might have the desire to try a new KB skill such as doubles or try a program with a limited duration to accomplish a goal. Your exploration might lead you down a new path for a time or you can return immediately to S&S. The beautiful thing is you don't had to decided today. You are young and you have a long future future of training ahead of you. Enjoy the journey.
I am currently exploring doubles. I have some goals I want to accomplish. But I plan to return to S&S to accomplish Timed Solid some day.
BTW, Pavel (in Q&D?) stated that one could cycle Q&D, S&S, and A+A programs indefinitely. Maybe he will explore this idea further in his new A+A book when it is released.
Cyrus-II
Level 5 Valued Member
I've gone as far as splitting swings in a day, or even doing them in a GTG fashion, when that was all I could do. I figured getting the reps in was better than nothing. I have found then a week or two later my recovery would improve.
Hopefully you have S&S 2.0? If so, re-read pg. 69 regarding Steve Justa. I think it will be helpful to you.
Yes, I agree with @blad51, and this is actually what I intend to do. I'm a little older than you. I have no specific goals, other than get stronger and improve my stamina. I will eventually add something else, most likely Easy Reg Park or Iron Cardio, but S&S will remain my main focus.
This week I just worked through an injury. I did something...I have no idea what, to my left wrist. I have an old ganglion (I think) injury that just hurt like the dickens late one night. I think I pulled something in there. I was still able to deload to the 16KG for one session and complete all the 1H swings and 24KG getups. About halfway through the swings I realized it was feeling better, so the last four sets I went up to the 24KG on swings. I've now had a rest day and feel bulletproof. There is a reason S&S is considered the improved program minimum.
james_1127
Level 6 Valued Member
IC pairs great with S&S. I also think you could run S&S as your main program for long-term, however, I would find a waving strategy as weight progresses. There is a huge difference doing 100 reps 4x a week with a 24,28,or 32kg bell and using or building up to say a 44kg bell
Oskarand
Level 4 Valued Member
yeah this makes sense to me: BTW, Pavel (in Q&D?) stated that one could cycle Q&D, S&S, and A+A programs indefinitely. And actually when I did QD I only did swings and push ups. Maybe time to develop one more skill apart from swings and TGU.
My identity is now officially: kettlebeller!
Any other kettlebellers in here..
My identity is now officially: kettlebeller!
Any other kettlebellers in here..Red_and_Black
Level 6 Valued Member
Yeah, I'm toying with the idea of ditching barbell training entirely and then my program for the forseeable being the 2 x 6km slow runs weekly I do home from work, and then cycle A&A, S&S, Q&D and Iron Cardio in blocks (sometimes overlapping slightly) 4-6 sessions a week.
Last edited: