Kettlebell Simple/Sinister question

[neal]

Hi,
I had been doing a round of isometrics at the beginning of each workout, because it is supposed to help with tendon/ligament soreness, etc. But I'm wondering, would this defeat the purpose of Simple/Sinister workout and it's focus on energy? Seems like I remember reading somewhere that Pavel's recommendation was to minimize the warmup, which seems like it would exacerbate the tendon/ligament problem..

Thanks!

 

[Anna C]

Probably depends on how fatiguing or stressful it is. Could you characterize a bit more about what you're doing with the isometrics?

As an aside, I'm currently using the Crossover Symmetry rig before and after weightlifting sessions, and they prescribe the "Recovery" exercises, which have a 6-second eccentric in each rep, to be done following a heavy workload on the shoulder (after the weightlifting session). From the manual, "Recovery uses a slow eccentric contraction to promote tissue recovery in two ways. It increases the time under tension which increases blood flow to the shoulder. This promotes the delivery of recovery products and the removal of waste products to enhance tissue recovery and reduce inflammation. Eccentric contractions have been shown to promote tendon health by helping to realign the fibers that make up the tendon. The cells of a healthy tendon should be long and linear, running together like a steel cable. But after a heavy workload, or tendon strain, the fibers become disorganized, losing their cable-like look. The eccentric contractions apply a force to the tissue that help fiber alignment."

I have no idea how evidence-based that is or how true it is, but seems like I've heard similar things from other sources. And it seems to be doing good things for my shoulders.

With that in mind, I'm wondering if you might be better off to do these isometrics after your S&S session, instead of before it.

 

[neal]

I do a fast walk (1 -1 1/2 miles) as a warmup (lately it's been 105-110 degrees), then do a round of isometrics for the following lift types - Shrugs, row, bicep, chest press, tricep press. For those I do three 6-8 second holds about midway through the range of motion, and usually holding at about 60-80% max (for each exercise). I move right on through all these, completing them in about 8-10 minutes. It did seem to help, but after your comment I'm wondering if it would be better after the S&S session (I don't want to lose the effects of S&S). On S&S, I'm having to stay with two-hand swings for now because of the soreness in the upper forearm, right near the elbow. Not sure why that happens.

 

[Anna C]

I do a fast walk (1 -1 1/2 miles) as a warmup (lately it's been 105-110 degrees), then do a round of isometrics for the following lift types - Shrugs, row, bicep, chest press, tricep press. For those I do three 6-8 second holds about midway through the range of motion, and usually holding at about 60-80% max (for each exercise). I move right on through all these, completing them in about 8-10 minutes. It did seem to help, but after your comment I'm wondering if it would be better after the S&S session (I don't want to lose the effects of S&S). On S&S, I'm having to stay with two-hand swings for now because of the soreness in the upper forearm, right near the elbow. Not sure why that happens.

After might be better, or splitting it to both before and after. Going back to the Crossover Symmetry routine I've been doing, there is an "Activation" before and a "Recovery" afterwards. It's the same exercises, but Activation is 8 reps with regular cadence. Recovery is 10 reps with a 6-second eccentric. So, that might be another option, to split it up like that. Activation without the holds to warm up the muscles and movements. Then your S&S training. Then Recovery with the routine you are doing (with the isometric holds) for more time under tension.

 

[neal]

Thanks, Anna. I appreciate you taking the time to respond and explain. I will give it a try!

Neal

 

[3letterslong]

After might be better, or splitting it to both before and after. Going back to the Crossover Symmetry routine I've been doing, there is an "Activation" before and a "Recovery" afterwards. It's the same exercises, but Activation is 8 reps with regular cadence. Recovery is 10 reps with a 6-second eccentric. So, that might be another option, to split it up like that. Activation without the holds to warm up the muscles and movements. Then your S&S training. Then Recovery with the routine you are doing (with the isometric holds) for more time under tension.

This is really interesting. I've always read that eccentric movements cause damage, but in the last few years I've been seeing sports coaches say that eccentrics don't damage the muscle, imperfect form / dysfunction damages the muscle, so it doesn't surprise me to see eccentrics now used as a form of recovery. I've also seen several coaches incorporate eccentrics into their training for the effect on spindle stiffness.

 

[Anna C]

This is really interesting. I've always read that eccentric movements cause damage, but in the last few years I've been seeing sports coaches say that eccentrics don't damage the muscle, imperfect form / dysfunction damages the muscle, so it doesn't surprise me to see eccentrics now used as a form of recovery. I've also seen several coaches incorporate eccentrics into their training for the effect on spindle stiffness.

Yeah... I'm far from an expert on this stuff, so just kind of speculating and putting things together that I've seen and heard. My impression is that the type of eccentrics that damage the muscle are heavy loading and/or high volume, like tempo squats, or lunges, or maybe RDLs, or biceps curls. But the type of eccentric loading used with the Crossover Symmetry, and perhaps what @neal is talking about, are not so hard or heavy to do that muscular damage. Instead, the movements and loads are much smaller, and the main work is on the tension on the tendons and ligaments, and that is where they are working their recovery magic. If there is any truth to it.