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Kettlebell Sinister or Beast Tamer, which first?

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Ben Bradbury

Level 4 Valued Member
Elite Certified Instructor
I'm aware that the title of this post may appear arrogant, believe me, it honestly isn't meant to be so.

I have ambitions to achieve both Sinister and tame the Beast within my lifetime.
I have to admit that I am not close to either at the moment, so before I patiently start out on what could be a long road of focused training (followed by a second), I wondered;
Which order do people think these achievements are best attainted in?

Does the acquisition of one more favourably set one up for achieving the next?

Thoughts and opinions appreciated.
 
Well, since they both require "mastery" of the 48kg, I would suspect they are mutually supportive. Personally, I would choose Sinister first, for me that would be the more achievable goal, and getting a victory in with the 48kg would be a good confidence booster to move on to the next goal.

Or in keeping with one of the standard programming questions, what is the goal, do you want to be strong (Sinister) or really strong (Beast Tamer) first?

Either way, excellent goals and I wish you strength and health as you move forward.
 
Totally dependend on the individual, but generally I'd say Beast Tamer is harder and therefore should come second.

I have only myself as example, but I hovered around close to Sinister level for quite some time just by using S&S. Getting to Sinister would have been just a relatively small, focused push towards it.
Beast Tamer on the other hand...
Press? Not that big of a problem.
Pullup? At 6'4, 220lbs and long arms something that's hard, but achievable in a couple of months.
Pistol? Probably the true nemesis with my body structure. Would probably take years of dedicated training towards that goal.
For others it might be swings or press or pullup that's holding them back from BT/IM or Sinister.
Many strong people are able to complete one of the events. Some can do two. But the ability to do all three is rare, as the three lifts favor different body types.
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That's a quote from Beast Tamer and Iron Maiden Challenge | StrongFirst and it holds true. IMHO Beast Tamer is and will always be the peak of "Girya Mountain"
 
I would ask Noah Maxwell , John Odden , or Ivan Masperi, as the few (only?) men to have achieved both.

A lot more men have achieved BT than Sinister, but that doesn't necessarily mean Sinister is harder; maybe more trained for and attempted Beast Tamer.

My advice would be to focus on Simple and SFG I before setting sights that far in the distance. The path will reveal itself to you if you aim for one of these first.
 
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Isn’t the BT a pure strength goal, while Sinister has it’s conditioning part? Obviously not saying that this means the first is easier.
 
Ben Bradbury said:
I'm aware that the title of this post may appear arrogant, believe me, it honestly isn't meant to be so.

I have ambitions to achieve both Sinister and tame the Beast within my lifetime.
I have to admit that I am not close to either at the moment, so before I patiently start out on what could be a long road of focused training (followed by a second), I wondered;
Which order do people think these achievements are best attainted in?

Does the acquisition of one more favourably set one up for achieving the next?

Thoughts and opinions appreciated.
Click to expand...
We're on the same boat here. I want to achieve one or both, but my biggest problems are (1) I also train in jiu-jitsu and that's my primary endeavor, and (2) my normal mass is around 63kg. (I believe the lightest Beast Tamer was Nolan Deleon at about 66kg.)

I kind of know what I should be focusing on in the short-term. Last year I could hit Simple on a moment's notice, Get up with the Beast on both sides once, and Press-Pistol-Pull the 32kg, but I felt stuck. Then I came up with this chronic shoulder pain that won't go away with PT. I got really discouraged. Now I'm fat and haven't trained since 2019. I still have a Timeless Simple, but I'm thinking of hitting the 24kg for a few weeks first.

I'm thinking of maybe conquering each 'bell (36, 40, 44, 48) one at a time, S&S and Press-Pistol-Pull, so I can own my strength rather than borrowing it. In theory, as long as I don't get impatient, they should both come at around the same time.

Anyway, keep me posted on your journey! I'm glad I'm not the only delusional one here. ?
 
Steve Freides said:
@Ben Bradbury, welcome to the StrongFirst forum.

I haven't achieved either, but my vote would be Simple, maybe Solid, then Beast Tamer, then Sinister. IMHO, better to be strong first then learn do endure your strength.

-S-
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I may be showing my ignorance here Steve but, what is ‘Solid’?
 
Machete said:
We're on the same boat here. I want to achieve one or both, but my biggest problems are (1) I also train in jiu-jitsu and that's my primary endeavor, and (2) my normal mass is around 63kg. (I believe the lightest Beast Tamer was Nolan Deleon at about 66kg.)

I kind of know what I should be focusing on in the short-term. Last year I could hit Simple on a moment's notice, Get up with the Beast on both sides once, and Press-Pistol-Pull the 32kg, but I felt stuck. Then I came up with this chronic shoulder pain that won't go away with PT. I got really discouraged. Now I'm fat and haven't trained since 2019. I still have a Timeless Simple, but I'm thinking of hitting the 24kg for a few weeks first.

I'm thinking of maybe conquering each 'bell (36, 40, 44, 48) one at a time, S&S and Press-Pistol-Pull, so I can own my strength rather than borrowing it. In theory, as long as I don't get impatient, they should both come at around the same time.

Anyway, keep me posted on your journey! I'm glad I'm not the only delusional one here. ?
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Ah we have a few things in common, I’m a BJJ practitioner too.
I can only get to the dojo once or twice a week at the moment though but I can easily access the Kettlebells daily, hence wanting to pick my focus.

I’m a bit on the lighter side for taming the beast too, at around 75kg, so I’ve been thinking I would need to put on a bit of mass to shift the beast.

I have to say I’m not sure about the feasibility of building up to Sinister at the same time as increasing strength so aggresivel on presses, pull ups and pistols.
Maybe “keep the goal, the goal”

How’s your shoulder now?
 
Long time lurking here but first time to participate. I have similar goals. Beast Tamer and 32kg SSST. I'm inclined to say they aren't mutually exclusive but complimentary. That being said the name is Strongfirst. The philosophy, as I understand it, is that all qualities flow from and are enhanced by strength. I say primarily focus on strength. If you achieve a 48kg press wouldn't that automatically benefit a 48kg TGU? Wouldn't the strength gained on the road to Beast Tamer translate to improved performance in swings? I remember reading Mark Rippetoe talking about a 5x5 405# squatters performance in a 2 mile run vs a runners performance in a 5x5 squat. Obviously the lifter was the more well rounded athletic performer. Again, I think both areas should be worked on at the same time. I would just skew my training capital toward Strongfirst. Just my 2 cents as an ongoing student.
 
Ben Bradbury said:
Ah we have a few things in common, I’m a BJJ practitioner too.
I can only get to the dojo once or twice a week at the moment though but I can easily access the Kettlebells daily, hence wanting to pick my focus.

I’m a bit on the lighter side for taming the beast too, at around 75kg, so I’ve been thinking I would need to put on a bit of mass to shift the beast.

I have to say I’m not sure about the feasibility of building up to Sinister at the same time as increasing strength so aggresivel on presses, pull ups and pistols.
Maybe “keep the goal, the goal”

How’s your shoulder now?
Click to expand...
Which elements of either achievement are most within reach? Which seems most out of reach? @Kettlebelephant had some good insights about body type, etc. I think the answer to your question is highly dependent on the individual.
 
Ben Bradbury said:
I'm aware that the title of this post may appear arrogant, believe me, it honestly isn't meant to be so.

I have ambitions to achieve both Sinister and tame the Beast within my lifetime.
I have to admit that I am not close to either at the moment, so before I patiently start out on what could be a long road of focused training (followed by a second), I wondered;
Which order do people think these achievements are best attainted in?

Does the acquisition of one more favourably set one up for achieving the next?

Thoughts and opinions appreciated.
Click to expand...

Where are you at in terms of what you can swing for 10 reps left and right? Do a getup with left and right? How much can you press? Pistol? Do pullups with?
 
Machete said:
We're on the same boat here. I want to achieve one or both, but my biggest problems are (1) I also train in jiu-jitsu and that's my primary endeavor, and (2) my normal mass is around 63kg. (I believe the lightest Beast Tamer was Nolan Deleon at about 66kg.)

I kind of know what I should be focusing on in the short-term. Last year I could hit Simple on a moment's notice, Get up with the Beast on both sides once, and Press-Pistol-Pull the 32kg, but I felt stuck. Then I came up with this chronic shoulder pain that won't go away with PT. I got really discouraged. Now I'm fat and haven't trained since 2019. I still have a Timeless Simple, but I'm thinking of hitting the 24kg for a few weeks first.

I'm thinking of maybe conquering each 'bell (36, 40, 44, 48) one at a time, S&S and Press-Pistol-Pull, so I can own my strength rather than borrowing it. In theory, as long as I don't get impatient, they should both come at around the same time.

Anyway, keep me posted on your journey! I'm glad I'm not the only delusional one here. ?
Click to expand...

Not the only crazy one here :) when I unlocked the timeless 40kg in one session I began thinking maybe sinister is definitely within reach if I put more serious training towards it..
 
Ben Bradbury said:
I'm aware that the title of this post may appear arrogant, believe me, it honestly isn't meant to be so.

I have ambitions to achieve both Sinister and tame the Beast within my lifetime.
I have to admit that I am not close to either at the moment, so before I patiently start out on what could be a long road of focused training (followed by a second), I wondered;
Which order do people think these achievements are best attainted in?

Does the acquisition of one more favourably set one up for achieving the next?

Thoughts and opinions appreciated.
Click to expand...

What a sweet problem to have! :cool:
 
Mark Limbaga said:
Where are you at in terms of what you can swing for 10 reps left and right? Do a getup with left and right? How much can you press? Pistol? Do pullups with?
Click to expand...
I think I'm closer to Sinister than Taming the Beast at the moment.
I've been doing some Q&D training with 40kg, so can swing that for 10 reps each side, have yet to attempt the 44kg.
I can do a TGU each side with the 48kg but not sure how many of those I could do in a day.
I have pressed 40kg but I'd put my 1RM at the moment much lower than that. Pull ups, not tested for a while but probably BW+36kg & Pistols I've never pushed much past 24kg.
 
I agree with @Kettlebelephant Beast tamer sounds like the harder challenge since we each person will have different difficulties. for instance speaking only for myself Press for me doesn't sound particularly un-reasonable with some dedicated focus (it would be 1/2 BW press)
the pistol would be hard and take a lot of work but I think I could get it in a 2-3 years.
A pull up with the Beast? yeah that sounds REAL challenging to me. I can't presently imagine that.
but thats just me. someone could have very different challenges.
 
Ben Bradbury said:
I think I'm closer to Sinister than Taming the Beast at the moment.
I've been doing some Q&D training with 40kg, so can swing that for 10 reps each side, have yet to attempt the 44kg.
I can do a TGU each side with the 48kg but not sure how many of those I could do in a day.
I have pressed 40kg but I'd put my 1RM at the moment much lower than that. Pull ups, not tested for a while but probably BW+36kg & Pistols I've never pushed much past 24kg.
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Sorry @Ben Bradbury, I missed earlier that you're Elite already. So you're pretty far along.

Sounds like Sinister is closer, and tempting you!

My suggestion, maybe a 2 year timeline:
  • 6 months of barbell strength training and slight caloric surplus to add another 5kg of muscle to your frame
  • 6-12 months of S&S (modified as needed for your specific needs) to Sinister
  • 3 months barbell strength plus weighted pull-ups
  • 9 months specific Beast Tamer training to BT
 
I’m probably not as strong as many of you, but I’ll give you my perspective as far as sinister is concerned. Unless, you are a complete monster, most people won’t “casually” meet sinister (timed). When I say casually, I’m talking about fitting in your training between your marathon training or your kung-fu-jitsu training. More than likely, you will have to dump everything else to put all your energy into sinister training. My impression is that the “easiest” way to sinister is to overload intensity. You will get to a point where you will have to draw the line on volume. Usually your hands will be the first to give in on the volume.

When you get into the heavier bells, “timeless” is still far from hitting a timed test at that weight. For instance, I got to the point where I was doing “timeless” sessions with the 48kg, but I could only meet the timed standards with the 40kg. I almost hit the timed standard for the 44kg, but that really (really) sucked. I bailed on the program when I realized that I needed to get some heavier bells and double-down on the intensity. (Plus I found out that won’t even get a t-shirt from strongfirst) My current instructor, who’s hit Sinister, used heavy/medium/light day template to hit Sinister. The “light” day was the done using the sinister-sized bell. If I catch Sinister fever again, I will definitely cut out any other activities & pony up for some bigger bells, and hopefully by then, we can at least get some T-shirts. (hint hint, maybe even hats????)

I can’t really comment on Beast Tamer. Never tried, because pullups & pistols aren’t something I gravitate towards because my extra weight. But that’s not a good excuse.

I’m hoping some of the guys & gals who made it to the holy land can comment on their journeys. Good Luck!
 
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