Bodyweight Skin the Cat and Work-In-Progress Front Lever

[Steve Freides]

I like to play on the rings once or twice a week. I did three of these - my wife videotaped the second one and I figured out how to tape the third one myself.

Skin the Cat and Work-In-Progress Front Lever





-S-

 

[Harald Motz]

Skinning the cat is really an art. Long cycles of tension and a kind of relaxation and playtime. I like them immensely. That's strength stretching.

 

[305pelusa]

I don't know how long you've been doing these for Steve, but I recommend to take Skin the Cat training very slowly. If you set the rings lower, it's possible to rest a portion of your Bodyweight with your legs on the floor. It isn't as flashy, but it will be much more comfortable, and will safely let you go slightly deeper. As time goes by, you can wane away from the assistance.

To give you some idea of it, Coach Sommers has his trainees build up to full Front Levers before beginning any Ring work (mainly because Skin the Cats and the Back Lever are notorious for thrashing shoulders). We don't have to be so conservative, but do keep in mind it's very strenuous.

Keep on keeping on!

 

[Steve Freides]

@305pelusa, the StC just feels like stretching and stomach exercise - I do it to stretch out my shoulders and have never had even a hint of it bothering them. My feet are able to touch at the bottom, but I've never felt the need to bail out of a StC. I am have strong abs for the rest of my overall level of strength, I'm pretty sure. Pavel used to enjoy in introducing me to people with "Hi, this is Steve. Punch him in the stomach, please." No kidding.

So I think StC is only strenuous if you don't have the ab strength to come back out of it whenever you like. It's my favorite shoulder stretch, really, and I do it maybe twice a week. Today was the first time I've done three of them - usually once is enough, so I don't know that I've been "working" on them, although three does feel like that, and I think I am going to keep up this slightly higher level of volume. I started doing these maybe, I dunno, a month.

Also notice that I don't hang out in the bottom-most position for long. What little work I've done on these feels like it's good to "touch and go" at the bottom, and only if working on the same depth over time would I consider hanging out at the bottom for longer.

@Harald Motz, yes, strength stretching - that's a good description of it, I agree.

-S-

 

[wespom9]

Pretty cool, @Steve Freides ! I've been playing around on the rings myself. Question for you - have you tried back lever's? Much of the info I read on rings seems to say that the back lever is a good intro after the skin the cat working on the way to the front lever.

 

[305pelusa]

I am have strong abs for the rest of my overall level of strength, I'm pretty sure. Pavel used to enjoy in introducing me to people with "Hi, this is Steve. Punch him in the stomach, please." No kidding.

So I think StC is only strenuous if you don't have the ab strength to come back out of it whenever you like.

I have no clue what the abs have to do with a skin the cat. The movement to come out of it is purely shoulder flexion.

I'm glad you find no pain with the unassisted version. Most people's shoulders don't seem to take the shoulder hyperextension that well (mine included). It was just a warning, just in case

 

[pet']

Hello,

@Steve Freides
Regarding the FL and the ab training, you can also use another transition. From the "chandelle" (when you are straigth, but upside down), you place one of your leg on your chest, while maintaining the other one straight. Then, you go for the 1 leg front lever position pretty slowly to be sure to control the move. That way, you'll work your scapula and your abs. Then, you can do the same with the other leg.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Harald Motz]

So I think StC is only strenuous if you don't have the ab strength to come back out of it whenever you like. It's my favorite shoulder stretch, really, and I do it maybe twice a week.

And turning around on semi tensed arms is not a good idea. Steve uses lots of tension throughout the body, then skinning the cat is just awesome as none.

 

[Steve Freides]

Pretty cool, @Steve Freides ! I've been playing around on the rings myself. Question for you - have you tried back lever's? Much of the info I read on rings seems to say that the back lever is a good intro after the skin the cat working on the way to the front lever.

@wespom9, I have not. My particular back doesn't like a lot of extension but loves the hollow position, so the back lever seems scary to me, and I'd rather master the front lever first.

We all have to know our own injuries and history. E.g., there are some pistol drills I cannot do because my spine won't tolerate them, but I can do an actual pistol. I remember talking about this at a bodyweight workshop with @Rif, and his comment was, "If you can do the skill, don't worry about the drill" or words to that effect. If the back lever is a drill on the way to a front lever, I suspect it will be a drill I don't do.

For anyone who's curious, the drill I cannot do is: from a deep, narrow-stance, two-footed squat, taking one leg out and moving it to the front..

I have no clue what the abs have to do with a skin the cat.

Ask someone who's had, e.g. recent surgery for a belly button hernia to do a StC - they can't. Pull-ups are another exercise that some people don't think of as using the abs, but they do.

From the "chandelle" (when you are straigth, but upside down), you place one of your leg on your chest, while maintaining the other one straight. Then, you go for the 1 leg front lever position pretty slowly to be sure to control the move.

Thank you - I am aware of this progression but it's also not one my lower back likes very much, so I'm going to avoid it for now.

Regarding all this, I will note that I've been working on my one-arm pushup, and I feel this has increased my lower back strength in ways that may allow me to try some of these drills that my back hasn't tolerated well in the past. If any of this changes, I will report back.

And I'm not trying to complain here. For those of you who don't know, I had a pretty severe lower back injury that's coming up on its 20th anniversary this coming Fall. Keeping my lower back working well is Job #1. Becoming stronger has been my main tool in doing that job, and the reason I learned to do things like splits is because having mobile hips and hamstrings helps. I have strong and mobile hips and hamstrings, and a strong lower back, but I do very little lower back mobility and stretching because that's what works for me.

And turning around on semi tensed arms is not a good idea. Steve uses lots of tension throughout the body, then skinning the cat is just awesome as none.

Yes, I agree. BTW, Harald, please post a link - if you don't mind - so that people can follow your Instagram account. I've been seeing what you've posted via your Facebook page, and it's great.

-S-

 

[305pelusa]

Ask someone who's had, e.g. recent surgery for a belly button hernia to do a StC - they can't. Pull-ups are another exercise that some people don't think of as using the abs, but they do.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree here. I believe the abs are simply stabilizers here, but having strong/weak abs is totally irrelevant when it comes to injury prevention in the StC. Having strong abs isn't decreasing your risk at all. Having strong/flexible shoulders, on the other hand, does.

Same for Pull-ups. You can have a midsection so strong Pavel praises it to strangers. It isn't gonna protect your elbows in the slightest. It's just totally unrelated in my eyes.

But again, we can agree to disagree. You're keeping the volume super low and using an overhand grip, so odds of straining anything are much lower anyways.

 

[pet']

Hello,

Regarding to core strength, working on the front lever engages the lumbars a lot. Working on an "antagonist" such as full planche / bent arm planche will get the job done.

Joint ROM is a different animal. You can control it (during a StC) by tensing more or less your shoulder.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Harald Motz]

You can control it (during a StC) by tensing more or less your shoulder.

or better hanging on the lats than on the shoulders.

 

[Rif]

I have no clue what the abs have to do with a skin the cat. The movement to come out of it is purely shoulder flexion.

I'm glad you find no pain with the unassisted version. Most people's shoulders don't seem to take the shoulder hyperextension that well (mine included). It was just a warning, just in case

Oh there is a TON of abdominal stretching and contraction in the skin the cat! you get quite a bit of spinal flexion going into, and out of it.
just pulling up to lower back into involves the abs 100% of the time.
pulling back out requires a serious ab contraction as well
Why do you think ALL gymnasts have such serious ab development?

 

[305pelusa]

Oh there is a TON of abdominal stretching and contraction in the skin the cat! you get quite a bit of spinal flexion going into, and out of it.
just pulling up to lower back into involves the abs 100% of the time.
pulling back out requires a serious ab contraction as well

Look at the force for a moment. Gravity is trying to push your spine into spinal flexion. Your abs aren't fighting any force. Gravity already pushes you into a posterior pelvic tilt.
That's why Skin the Cats and Back Levers develop the opposite muscle (spinal extensors). Not the abs.

By the same vein, the Front Lever and the Hanging Leg Raise train your abs (because now gravity wants to push your spine into extension).

You can certainly tense your abs in the Skin the Cat. But then again, you can tense them while you're eating Doritos. Doesn't mean either one is a good ab development exercise.

Why do you think ALL gymnasts have such serious ab development?

Even if most gymnasts have serious ab development (extremely debatable), you think the Skin the Cat and Back Lever work are the reason?

You don't think it's because of the extensive hollow body work they do (hollow holds, dragon flags, front levers, hanging leg raises, etc)?

EDIT: ugh internet was weird and I thought I had to edit the second part. Anyways, Rif saw the response.

 

[Rif]

When I said all gymnasts, I meant all competitive gymnast above a basic level.
I was an elite level competitive gymnast for 8 years and coached elite and olympic level gymnasts for six so I've been and known A LOT of gymnasts. No one who can compete at a top HS level and or college level is hurting for ab strength or definition.
You can't DO gymnastics if you are too heavy or tall so it is a very self selecting group. Lighter and stronger is better and just the 3-5 hours a day of training will get you strong and enduring pretty quickly

 

[305pelusa]

When I said all gymnasts, I meant all competitive gymnast above a basic level.

Ok. I agree competitive gymnasts tend to have strong abs, just like most competitive strength athletes.

Why do you think ALL gymnasts have such serious ab development?

You're saying it's because of Skin the Cats? I think their strong abdominal development comes from hollow body work (Front Levers, L-sits, V-sits, Leg Raises, etc). I don't think it's because of movements where gravity already forces the spinal flexion (like the planche or Skin the Cat).

We can agree to disagree though.

No one who can compete at a top HS level and or college level is hurting for ab strength or definition.

I don't even understand what this sentence is saying.

 

[Rif]

Ok. I agree competitive gymnasts tend to have strong abs, just like most competitive strength athletes.


You're saying it's because of Skin the Cats? I think their strong abdominal development comes from hollow body work (Front Levers, L-sits, V-sits, Leg Raises, etc). I don't think it's because of movements where gravity already forces the spinal flexion (like the planche or Skin the Cat).

We can agree to disagree though.


I don't even understand what this sentence is saying.

Skin the cats is barely a beginning gymnastics movement so , no, it wouldn't fit in my definition above; that all COMPETITIVE gymnasts have very strong and defined abs.
How much gymnastics have you done? Are you speaking from any experience or just theoretically?
Gymnasts, because of the extreme range of motions they take their bodies into, especially inverted and through the transverse plane ( pommel horse anybody) have quite a unique abdominal strength ability even relative to most strength athletes.

this sentence " hurting or abs strength" should have an F in front of or , so hurting FOR abs strength.

 

[Steve Freides]

You can certainly tense your abs in the Skin the Cat. But then again, you can tense them while you're eating Doritos.

It's tough to argue facts - you can't do a pullup or a Skin the Cat without using your abs. You can't go from hanging from the rings to being upside down on the rings, the latter being a prerequisite to continuing on to a StC, without using your abs.

I have edited @Rif's post as he's suggested.

-S-

 

[305pelusa]

It's tough to argue facts - you can't do a pullup or a Skin the Cat without using your abs. You can't go from hanging from the rings to being upside down on the rings, the latter being a prerequisite to continuing on to a StC, without using your abs.

I have edited @Rif's post as he's suggested.

-S-

Steve, I really don't know how else to say it. The abs are important, yes. Because the Skin the Cat is a full body exercise (like most gymnastics exercises) it demands a powerful ab contraction. Especially so because I'm sure you purposely tense them.

My point is merely that the injury and risk of the Skin the Cat is virtually all about the shoulder. The shoulder is the one getting hyperextension, with your whole body weight on it too. If you're looking for a safe StC, the shoulder is what should be top priority.

To say you're safe in the Skin the Cat because you have strong abs is missing the true danger of the exercise.

I honestly don't know how else to say it.

 

[Rif]

Steve, I really don't know how else to say it. The abs are important, yes. Because the Skin the Cat is a full body exercise (like most gymnastics exercises) it demands a powerful ab contraction. Especially so because I'm sure you purposely tense them.

My point is merely that the injury and risk of the Skin the Cat is virtually all about the shoulder. The shoulder is the one getting hyperextension, with your whole body weight on it too. If you're looking for a safe StC, the shoulder is what should be top priority.

To say you're safe in the Skin the Cat because you have strong abs is missing the true danger of the exercise.

I honestly don't know how else to say it.

again do you have any real gymnastics experience? gymnastics is all about feed forward tension ( getting tight in advance of the loading) but also exercises like those on rings or horizontal bar the abs( entire midsection ) are massively loaded just from the huge stretching involved in being inverted, going to and from inversion and, of course swinging around the rings/bar.

Also if you doubt the abdominal development of competitive gymnasts please show me ONE example of a collegiate or equivalent level gymnast that doesn't have serious abs.

going into the inversion of a skin the cat, again truly a beginning beginners skill, creates a huge stretch on the rectus abdominus and a serious contraction on the reverse- even in one is not purposely contracting them
Again, with respect, do you have any real gymnastics experience?