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Bodyweight "Skin The Cat" on Rings - Questions

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Steve Freides

Steve Freides

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I've been doing these of late as my warmup - nice range of motion for the shoulder.

I'm using rings, and I start with what would be a neutral grip for pullups - palms facing inward.

It occurs to me that I could also do a little work on my front lever, since the way I roll back around to my StC is already a poor front lever without my even trying. So my question is: what is the proper orientation of the rings for a front lever? Is there only one way these are done? Can facing inward be use, or should the rings be so that my palms are pointing forwards rather than towards each other? Or something else?

Thanks in advance.

-S-
 
@Steve Freides From my experience I would say same as on the pullup bar, pulling hard down, but it has been few years I have been doing FLs, and - although I have rings, I always used the pullup bar for FLs. Hard to pull down with a hammer grip.

Shoot a message to Cole Summers, Senior SFG - as for front levers, he is the expert. Please let me know what he says. I am sure our Chief SFB @Karen Smith will also have some excellent tips as for FLs.

Skin the Cat aka German Hang - I love it, and I do it quite often.
 
Hello,

Steve Freides said:
what is the proper orientation of the rings for a front lever?
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A train a lot in FL for a while now, to get 4 or 5s hold.

Some folks, as @Pavel Macek says, have exactly the same grip with both ring and bar.

For me, it is slightly different. My palms do a 45° angle pointing outward (so my thumbs are inward, pinkies outward). I consider this grip slightly more natural and wrist friendly when you work with high volume. Before, I worked on bar and get a little pain on my left wrist. That is why you do very well on doing it on rings.

IMO, you will have to make an unnessary effort to have the same grip than on a bar. If you do not focus on a specific angle, you might notice a slight angle pointing outward (maybe not 45 which is mine, maybe a bit less).

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
@pet' Excellent, thank you for the tip. I am copying it to my StrongFirst X-Files, I know I will use it in the future.
 
Hello,

@Pavel Macek
You are welcome ! Thanks for the kind words ! For once I can give you a tip ;)

I would add that excepted the grip, progression moves to get to the proper FL are exactly the same, both on a bar and rings.
This video will show you the progressions (on a bar)

I used it and it worked super well.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
I never paid any attention to hand position at all until I read this post, I had to go out to my rings and check my hand orientation. I am always more concerned with where my feet & legs are. My hands move to towards a palm forward position a lot like @pet' (about 45 deg) and my right hand seems to turn slightly more palms forward than my left.

If I was competing in the rings at gymnastics meet turning the hands turning out could be considered a mistake but anyone training at home I can't see it making much difference.

As suggested in pet's vid above the weighted pullups seem to be good training for the front lever, I was pulling over 1.5 X my bodyweight the first time I tried a front lever & I was able to do it on the first attempt. It was only brief and very shaky but I held my legs parallel to the floor for more than a sceond.

For some reason back levers are more of a challenge for me.
 
Steve Freides said:
what is the proper orientation of the rings for a front lever?
Click to expand...
Steve, you want to have your palms facing forward. You could potentially experiment with further internal rotation as Pet' describes, but I haven't personally heard of that before so can't comment.

Steve Freides said:
Is there only one way these are done?
Click to expand...

False grip is very common, if you want to do a FL > MU sequence. They can also be done with an underhand grip, although it's very rare and much harder.

Steve Freides said:
Can facing inward be use, or should the rings be so that my palms are pointing forwards rather than towards each other?
Click to expand...

Facing inward can be used for the early progressions that require little back lean. However, as lean increases, there simply isn't enough radial deviation ROM in the wrist for most people to maintain straight arms.

Coincidentally, this is why you don't see the Planche done on fists. Same concept.
 
Hello,

@Steve Freides
A good combination to work on agonist-antagonist pairs is front lever / back lever. It will work a lot the shoulder strength and mobility, and I think it can serve you well for your deadlift. The back lever focus (among many things) on lumbar vertebra.

That way, you have a shoulder mobility and strength complex, plus an ab work, plus a back flexibility and strength work.

Of course, that is just an idea I "throw" there.

I hope it helps,

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
I am hugely busy, and my 1A1L pushup is my priority, and StC just a warmup so, for now, I don't think I've worked on the lever at all since I asked, and I haven't done many StC's, either, just because I've barely had time to do the most important lift: 1A1LPU, and barbell deadlift for me at this time.

Thank you for asking. The big volunteer project I do every year at this time - see RHS Jamboree | RHS Scholarships since 1947 - is over in about 10 days, and I will then be able to focus more on my training.

-S-
 
pet' said:
@Steve Freides
Did you "skin the cat" then ? Did you begin a front lever training or one of its progression?
Click to expand...
I do Skin the Cat as a variety day activity - that means I do these once or twice a week. I can get my lower legs perpendicular to the ground and come back around again in that piked position. The last couple of times, I've played with the front lever position - I can hold, only briefly, with one leg fully extended.

My routine for the next 12 weeks or so will be, on Mon-Tue-Thu-Fri:

Swings - varied type, weight, reps/set, volume

one-arm pushups - taking loose triple progression approach, e.g., yesterday got 2 triples using a 12" box.

DDMP - for now, using 20 kg and focusing on very strict form, no lean-back at all.

DDDL - started yesterday, March 16, 2017.

DDDL Notes: As I did last time, I am using an estimated 1RM and will only attempt to pull about 96%. My previous meet cycle used 275 lbs. for my 75%, an estimated 367 lbs. 1RM, and I pulled 350 for my second attempt, about 95.3%. This time, I will use 285 for my 75% based on an estimated 380 1RM, and go for 365 at the meet, which is about 96%. When I pull 365, it will be a new lifetime best, surpassing my previous best set 11 years ago at age 51.

In part because I'm only pulling 4 days a week, I've been experimenting with doing 6 pulls instead of 5, and I'm going to try to keep that. I've been doing 2 with a double overhand grip, 2 with right under and left over, and 2 with left under and right over. The last is my preferred competition grip.

The April 8 TSC is just one day off from my scheduled 85% day, which is 323 lbs., so I will pull that at the TSC at Ron Farrington's place, which isn't too far from here.

-S-
 
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