Other/Mixed Sledgehammer Effects On Boxer Power

[hugh]

A lot of the old time Boxing greats have said chopping wood/ sledgehammer slams helped them generate power.

I get that boxing strike power comes from the hips, but is there any reason using a sledgehammer would be better for developing punching power over a kettlebell swing?

I also get that Sledgehammer chop/slams would work the anterior chain (serratus anterior= the 'boxer muscle'), while the kettlebell swing would work the posterior chain.

 

[tomstranger]

I’ve had similar thoughts/questions. Intuitively to me the two movements seem to be very complimentary. I used to do *a lot* of sledge strikes in my training, and I have been pondering adding them back in this summer.
One observation is that it is easier to swing a sledgehammer than it is to swing a kettlebell (especially over speed eccentrics, which seems to me to be an area where these movements could be said to overlap) without someone telling you or showing you how.
Another thought as to why the old timers used them and why they are still a great training idea today is accessibility. You can get a sledgehammer from the hardware store for way cheaper than a kettlebell, and a used tire for the hauling and voila, you’re in business. The old guys may have chopped wood out of necessity or at least grown up around people who heated with wood, so it would have been a familiar task.

 

[Kev]

I would just do it anyway. Ross Enamait is a big fan of it. Some guys have recommended instead of the tyre A) a large enough sand pit. B) a tree stump and C) just the earth. The latter being harder as the hammer gets sucked in and needs wrenched out. I used to do it with a half buried tyre and would mix it in with snatches and swings.

 

[oab]

Originally, some boxers used axes, however, axes are sharp and can slip off wood when you strike it in all sorts of directions.... including the feet and lower legs. One legged or footless boxers have short careers. So, some boxers decided that there were better options. The sledge hammer being one. Also, firewood became less used as a fuel overall as gas and electricity became more popular ie less need for the wood and so training was modified. Sledge hammers on a tyre or similar are one substitute.

Many years ago when I played with sledge hammers I built a metal frame to sit the tyre in end on so the rim of the tyre protruded and could be hit on a stable broad base. I think I used a strong rubber band or rope to hold the tyre in place so it could not come out but the energy from striking could be dissipated. The frame was lightweight as I had little space for it and it had to be shifted to and fro to be used. It had a wide base for stability but tended to shift around a bit when in use.

Then I swapped to clubs which can provide similar movement patterns but need no tyre or frame. Be careful of the hammer on the sledge as its lack of symmetry can mean an inadvertent bodily contact to the rear of torso is slightly more likely. Especially, relevant to those who use a sledge hammer to mimic a gada (indian mace).

Then I realised (all credit to Pavel Macek who mentioned it in a post somewhere) that clubs are likely redundant if your martial training includes weapons training like swords, pole and so on. Conventional western boxers may specifically find clubs useful as western boxing is often taught without weapons. The light clubs (eg 1lb each) help to work on mobility and the weight is such that some weighted speed training is possible using movement patterns unrelated to boxing but recruiting similar muscles. So, boxers can get the benefits of that without the degrooving and slowing that can occur replicating boxing motions holding weights. Not saying there are no benefits in holding weights but the club approach has certain advantages and people do tend to use hand weights for speed training that are too heavy.

These days I mainly exercise\train for health and longevity but I still like to do a bit of forms\kata weapon training a couple of times a week for sheer enjoyment of the activity.

 

[pet']

Hello,

Sledgehammer are an excellent tool because it works as a twist. You will find the same motion in a punch. Boxing is all about power and weight transfer from the leg to the fist. Kb swings, despite the anti-rotation component (if you do OA) has less similitude with a punch in terms of body mechanics.

Kb snatches will work very well as well if you want to stay in SF line.

However, I'd like to point out that for the average person, it is usually easier to train "physical abilities" than "technical abilities". Most of the folks I know hate shadow boxing or just drilling (meaning pure technique) over and over again. However, those who drill and shadow (even without physical training alongside boxing) generate way more power. I always err to the side of technique because this is the best way - as far as boxing is concerned - to generate a lot of power without being tired. If one starts to do more physical conditioning than actual practice then there's an issue

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[hugh]

Hello,

Sledgehammer are an excellent tool because it works as a twist. You will find the same motion in a punch. Boxing is all about power and weight transfer from the leg to the fist. Kb swings, despite the anti-rotation component (if you do OA) has less similitude with a punch in terms of body mechanics.

Kb snatches will work very well as well if you want to stay in SF line.

However, I'd like to point out that for the average person, it is usually easier to train "physical abilities" than "technical abilities". Most of the folks I know hate shadow boxing or just drilling (meaning pure technique) over and over again. However, those who drill and shadow (even without physical training alongside boxing) generate way more power. I always err to the side of technique because this is the best way - as far as boxing is concerned - to generate a lot of power without being tired. If one starts to do more physical conditioning than actual practice then there's an issue

Kind regards,

Pet'

great point. technique>power training.

Would you recommend any boxing instructional videos for beginners?

 

[pet']

Hello @hugh

The first thing I'd recommend is to learn proper technique with a good teacher. Indeed, it may be easy to learn poor technique with only YT video. These 'habits' will eventually be hard to change.

Nonetheless, if for some reason, a gym is not possible, then Tony Jeffries (Olympian) has excellent content.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Excellent answers..

Another great low skill movement you can add are slam ball tosses

 

[Kev]

 

[hugh]

I've seen this video, he explains how to do it rather than the benefits from actually doing it.


Ivan said slamming the 30kg hammer helped him rank in a competition, he doesnt mention specifics though....

I think the kettlebell swing and training is the way to go for improving boxing performance

 

[pet']

Hello,

Not about sledgehammer training, but to add to the above about swings:

The 37-Second Knockout: Building a Boxer’s Ferocious Comeback | StrongFirst

The creative and research-driven programming by Pavel Tsatsouline and Fabio Zonin that prepared me for a boxing comeback—even while protecting a broken thumb.

www.strongfirst.com

To a certain extent, clubbell/ macebell / gada training can also be fairly interesting (rotational strength, shoulder mobility and strength, etc...)

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[hugh]

Hello,

Not about sledgehammer training, but to add to the above about swings:

The 37-Second Knockout: Building a Boxer’s Ferocious Comeback | StrongFirst

The creative and research-driven programming by Pavel Tsatsouline and Fabio Zonin that prepared me for a boxing comeback—even while protecting a broken thumb.

www.strongfirst.com

To a certain extent, clubbell/ macebell / gada training can also be fairly interesting (rotational strength, shoulder mobility and strength, etc...)

Kind regards,

Pet'

I was just reading this one! great minds, aye.

 

[North Coast Miller]

...However, those who drill and shadow (even without physical training alongside boxing) generate way more power. I always err to the side of technique because this is the best way - as far as boxing is concerned - to generate a lot of power without being tired.

This cannot be repeated enough, solid technique generates more power than any strength or conditioning you can do.

Strength, conditioning enhance what's already there - without skill base its largely wasted.

Coach VanV credited regular burpees with having the greatest single positive effect in terms of exercise carry over.

 

[hugh]

This cannot be repeated enough, solid technique generates more power than any strength or conditioning you can do.

Strength, conditioning enhance what's already there - without skill base its largely wasted.

Coach VanV credited regular burpees with having the greatest single positive effect in terms of exercise carry over.

Who's Coach VanV?

I wonder how burpees offered a great carryover or if Coach VanV knows about kettlebell work.

tbf I think a lot of classic fighter strength/conditioning is outdated and/or incorrect.

There are so many videos of top level fighters (Manny Pacquiao) doing crunches, full contact twists incorrectly, neck bridges, etc...

What's more, The guy in the Sledgehammer video I posted has a video on kettlebell presses.

His technique is **awful** He'll probably tell people 'yeah kettlebell presses will just ruin your shoulder, dont do them theyre no good for combat sports'. Then that becomes the norm around the gym (like the parable of the monkeys having been conditioned to pull each other down).

He is an accomplished fighter, but if he took his strength/conditioning seriously- who knows how great he could have been!

 

[North Coast Miller]

Who's Coach VanV?

I wonder how burpees offered a great carryover or if Coach VanV knows about kettlebell work.

"Precision Striking" on youtube, he's been putting out solid content for years primarily targeted for the beginner to intermediate boxing enthusiast. IDK if he uses KBs or if so to what degree.

 

[Anth]

Hitting a tire with a sledgehammer gives you something that no strength move or lift can give you: the power jolt you get from hitting something. It’s like hitting a heavy bag vs shadow boxing. You might have the same power output, heart rate, all that, but the jolt helps give you an edge in power and mentality. It helps give you power that you can only get from hitting. That’s what I found anyway.

 

[Period]

I am not sure if it has been mentioned before, but I think that sledgehammer work is actually quite different from kettlebell swings in a number of regards, and arguably quite a bit more specific to boxing. It mimics boxing quite a bit more in several regards: rotation, dropping your weight in accordance with the descent of the hammer (and shifting bodyweight is one of the main ways - if not the main way - to develop power in the punch) and tightening up right before impact. Also, the main path of power is down, not up - I don't know about you guys, but I'd never dare to put as much downward accelleration into the kettlebell when swinging as I do with a sledgehammer.
I know that specificity in training is a subject of discussion; I don't want to open a can of worms here, but in my opinion, most of the old school training methods tend to be fairly sports specific. They also tend to work for that very same reason. Switching out a tried and tested approach for some other exercise is done at your own risk, and in my opinion one should have a very good understanding of what's going on in the exercise before doing so. At the very least, on should have used it extensively (= seriously for several months, if not years) under competent instruction. That is not to say one cannot use different approaches, but then there is no real base for claiming that the two exercsies do the same in my opinion.

 

[North Coast Miller]

Hitting a tire with a sledgehammer gives you something that no strength move or lift can give you: the power jolt you get from hitting something. It’s like hitting a heavy bag vs shadow boxing. You might have the same power output, heart rate, all that, but the jolt helps give you an edge in power and mentality. It helps give you power that you can only get from hitting. That’s what I found anyway.

I found a similar effect from doing stick drills to actually hitting a tire stack or other hard target. I'm not sure if the conditioning effect is the same, but with stick it reinforces the need to keep your head out of the rebound line.

 

[Deleted member 316]

I've heard/read to really to really get the full effect, makes sure you extend all the way up. I think they called it something like triple extension

 

[Anth]

I found a similar effect from doing stick drills to actually hitting a tire stack or other hard target. I'm not sure if the conditioning effect is the same, but with stick it reinforces the need to keep your head out of the rebound line.

Right. It probably strengths your hands and wrists too when you make that contact.