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Other/Mixed Sleep Camel

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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JeffC

Level 7 Valued Member
Can you store sleep or make up for lost sleep?

I don’t get enough sleep on work days. On days I don’t work I try to get extra sleep or a nap when possible. I could sometimes use my time more effectively to get more sleep, but I don’t always have that level of willpower and dedication.

I do feel much better when I get more sleep, obviously right, but am I making up any ground on not getting enough sleep?

If I could get an extra half hour of sleep some nights would it make up for one night of little sleep?
 

Antti

Level 9 Valued Member
I think in very short term it is possible, like sleep extra right before a day you know you won't get sleep enough, or sleep a bit more the day after a sleepless night etc. But beyond that, I don't think it's possible.

The loss of sleep does, however, become cumulative.
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
I think this has been studied and written about a fair amount. The conclusion was that most people function best with a very regular sleep schedule and that, e.g., the same weekly total works better when it's divided evenly. IOW, you can't make up for lost sleep, but sleeping more when you're tired will still make you feel better, just not as good as sleeping the same, sufficient amount every night.

-S-
 

Jan

Level 4 Valued Member
I fully agree with @Steve Freides : we (my wife and I) have late nights and early mornings during the week (around 6 to 7 hours) and tend to sleep longer during the weekend (8 to 9 hours). Despite the fact that we sleep longer during the weekend, there is still a sense of tiredness throughout the day.
 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
Agreed. From everything I have read you cannot really:
  • Significantly bank sleep hours for future use
  • Significantly make up sleep hours by sleeping extra
This is also aligned with personal experience
 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
That's a fair observation Geoff. I suppose I find this true as well, but for me it's probably only taking me to a baseline 'required' sleep. Not above and beyond if that makes any sense.

Like you, I most often do not get 'enough' sleep especially on work nights...
 

Kevin Gupta

Level 5 Valued Member
I would recommend a book Why We Sleep from Matthew Walker. It's all about scientific research on sleeping and author mentions, that sleep is the most important thing for your health, while nutrition and quality of physical activity are thriving from a quality of sleep.
 

Kevin Gupta

Level 5 Valued Member
And no, you cannot really store a sleep or make up for a lost one, but a short nap is working like buffer, which is reducing a harm for your body.
 

Deleted member 5559

Guest
I believe when in a dark room with no ability to observe time, subjects sleep for 11+ hours for a couple days after sleep deprivation and then shift to ~7.5 hours.
 

mprevost

Level 7 Valued Member
The military has looked at this quite a bit. This is something I used to teach Naval aviators about. In fact, we used a sleep and fatigue modeling software package to predict performance called the Fatigue Avoidance Scheduling Tool (FAST). What was found is that if you severely disrupt sleep for one night, even 3 nights of over sleeping (sleeping 1-2 hours more than normal) was not enough to restore cognitive performance back to baseline. Of course, a mild sleep deficit would have less of an impact, but performance would still be compromised. Plus, the effects are additive. So getting 30 minutes to 1 hour less than you need for 5 nights, then trying to pay it back on the weekend is a formula for poor performance throughout most of the week.

As others have stated, you can't store up sleep ahead of time either. It simply does not work at all.

Newer research has shown that even one night with a sleep deficit produces a measurable increase in insulin resistance, weight gain and inflammation. It is really bad long term.

You really can't oversleep. When the sleep "battery" is fully charged, your body will wake you up. Unless you are waking up naturally, and feeling refreshed and alert when you wake up, you are probably not getting enough. Since I started tracking my sleep about 8 months ago, I have been averaging 9 hours and 11 minutes per night. But I am retired, so I can sleep as much as I want. The average person needs about 8 and those who train need a bit more, so my 9:11 per night is not an outlier.

Most people have the time to address sleep but their lifestyle and habits prevent them from doing so. You really have to count backwards 9 hours from when you need to wake up, and ensure that you are in bed at that time, with the lights on dim, maybe reading a book, with the TV and computer off. You also have to look at caffeine. Caffeine has a long half life and can interfere with sleep quality for up to 6-8 hours.

This is something that is really worth getting under control. I did not really have this dialed in until I was in my 40s.
 

North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
I find being well rested helps if my sleep is scuttled the following night. It does not work so well in reverse but it does help some.

I am chronically a bit under where I aught to be. I find I can accommodate less than ideal sleep up to a point, but ANY reduction beyond what I'm used to is a big deal and very tough to recover from.
 

Waryrenn

Level 5 Valued Member
I recall a study which demonstrated that long term night shift workers, who were well adapted to their schedule, and did not have a sleep deficit (ie still get 8+ hours sleep in the day) still suffered detrimental health issues due to sleep quality.
I paid attention to the report as a number of family members do regular night shifts (continental pattern, so even worse for sleep rhythms than doing night shifts).
Unfortunately I no longer recall the specific details but would look for them if anyone was interested.
I realise that this isn't what the OP has asked - just adding this to demonstrate that sleep is complex issue where 1+1 doesn't always equal 2
 
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ali

Level 6 Valued Member
Getting sufficient natural light during the day and avoiding devices in the evening before beddy byes seems to be a thing. Apart from visiting this forum everything else is bad for your health. Read a book by candle light, or procreate. Or both. Not sure in which order it is recommended.
 

fractal

Level 6 Valued Member

I found this to be a worthwhile listen.

Personally, I can tolerate one night of bad sleep (5-6) hours comfortably if I'm averaging 7.5-9 90+% of the time
 

H. Mac

Level 5 Valued Member
The duration of sleep is important, but so is its scheduling.

A person who typically sleeps 7 1/2 hours from 10:00 p.m. to 5:30 a.m. for example, might not perform well or feel well rested if the 7 1/2 hour period is rescheduled, even if by only 30 minutes. The duration of sleep remains the same, but its effectiveness may be diminished. It’s the impact of circadian rhythms.

And while I agree that sleep can not be saved up or made up, the fatigue that often accompanies foregone sleep can often be minimized by a nap, even when the nap duration is far shorter than the period of foregone sleep.
 

JeffC

Level 7 Valued Member
Family and responsibility means I get 4–6 hours on a work day, probably interrupted, and maybe 7-8 hours on a day I do not work. Rarely I will crash for +10 hours. I have been in a sleep defict for about +15 years.

My kids and shift work happened at about the same time 1.5-2 years ago making my sleep particularly more dysfunctional.

Somethings I cannot control, some things I can manage.

Darkened and cool room. No light emitting devices in bed. Reduce and restrict caffeine. What else? Maybe I should just start using marijuana when it becomes legal in October.

I already over use sleep aids. Melatonin and over the counter sleeping pills. When transitioning from day to night and night to day I use them for 2-3 days, and if I get a chance to go to bed early I will use sleep aids. I will also use over the counter pain meds and muscle relaxers if am particularly restless.

I know this pattern is unproductive and unhealthy but such is the blue collar life. I am certiian I am taking years off my life, and my family doctor, dentist, and sports therapist say I am very healthy.
 
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offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
Good points Geoff.
Not just restricted to blue collar life either. Try traveling 50-60% of the time. Multiple time zones, staying in different hotels, different beds, difficult food choices, general stress of travel, plus still putting in 10 hours of work (albeit maybe not hard physical stuff) and trying to train on the road.

Enough sleep, and quality sleep are easily compromised...
 

Jan

Level 4 Valued Member
You really have to count backwards 9 hours from when you need to wake up,

Wait, that would mean I have to go to bed at 9 p.m. (I get up at between 6 and 6:30 a.m.). No way I can do that. I only get home from work at 6:30 p.m. By the time I have dinner prepared, eaten and done the dishes, it's nearly that time. Besides, starting next week we will be teaching dancing 6 days a week in the evening.
I will have to wait until I retire to follow the above advice, whenever that is :)
 
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