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Off-Topic Sleep

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JeffC

JeffC

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Not getting enough sleep? You're not alone — and that's bad for all of us

Where do they come up with these figures?

I have been having a lack of sleep the last week or so, about 4 hours of disturbed sleep. I see 11pm on the clock and my alarm goes off at 3am. I rarely get 6 hours during the week, that would be asleep by 9pm which does not happen often. I may get 7-8 hours on a day I do not work.

What adult with a full time job, commute, family, pets, hobbies, chores, some down time, and responsibilities gets 8 hours a night? There is not enough time in the day. I do not sit much or watch tv. I do spend a bit of time on this forum though.
 
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All the sleep anxiety! I have a theory that the reason we see such high need for sleep comes from the general culture of weakness and anxiety. Modern people overreact emotionally to the stress of being at all underslept as they do for all stressors and that triggers all the negative consequences we see. I rack up ENORMOUS sleep deficits as a training addicted new father part time paramedic (ie: call ins) but find that I've adapted fairly well to it. There are times when I get no sleep whatsoever and remain at 90% function because I just don't get hung up on it and just keep doing things albeit at a slower pace and with greater deliberation. I offer no scientific proof for my little theory but if 8 hours sleep is out of reach for the average modern with all of their convenience then I have a hard time believing we have evolved for what is likely even MORE unattainable to a hunter-gatherer. And this is backed up by some reports from previously uncontacted tribes who report severe lack of sleep because of the rigors of their life (fear of predators, enemies, exposure to elements, hunger etc.) I dunno....I often wonder if much of our medical "discoveries" are merely narration of the slow decline of our physical powers of resilience.
 
Kyrinov said:
All the sleep anxiety! I have a theory that the reason we see such high need for sleep comes from the general culture of weakness and anxiety. Modern people overreact emotionally to the stress of being at all underslept as they do for all stressors and that triggers all the negative consequences we see. I rack up ENORMOUS sleep deficits as a training addicted new father part time paramedic (ie: call ins) but find that I've adapted fairly well to it. There are times when I get no sleep whatsoever and remain at 90% function because I just don't get hung up on it and just keep doing things albeit at a slower pace and with greater deliberation. I offer no scientific proof for my little theory but if 8 hours sleep is out of reach for the average modern with all of their convenience then I have a hard time believing we have evolved for what is likely even MORE unattainable to a hunter-gatherer. And this is backed up by some reports from previously uncontacted tribes who report severe lack of sleep because of the rigors of their life (fear of predators, enemies, exposure to elements, hunger etc.) I dunno....I often wonder if much of our medical "discoveries" are merely narration of the slow decline of our physical powers of resilience.
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So you are saying if you got more sleep you would move quicker and easier yet you are arguing that sleep doesn't matter? Confused.

Sleep is magical if you aren't getting 8 hours, I feel for you.
 
All these studies and statistics are mostly nonsense. I heard a Metascientist, a scientist who performs research on and verifies science, say 85% of the reasearch studies he and his peers try to verify are not replicable. People make life altering decisions based on one unproven study or experiment.

I function adequately on 6 hours, I have since moving from school to working life, but not long on 4-5 hours before it catches up to me. Of course more sleep is better but who has time?
 
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Like many things regarding health there are basic guidelines, but the individual experience or need may differ. Not everyone needs 8 hours to be healthy and recover (from whatever stress the person has in his/her life).
During the summer months I wake up after only 5 hours of sleep and I feel fresh and energized. During the winter months I tend to need those recommended 7-8 hours.

I offer no scientific proof for my little theory but if 8 hours sleep is out of reach for the average modern with all of their convenience then I have a hard time believing we have evolved for what is likely even MORE unattainable to a hunter-gatherer. And this is backed up by some reports from previously uncontacted tribes who report severe lack of sleep because of the rigors of their life (fear of predators, enemies, exposure to elements, hunger etc.) I dunno....I often wonder if much of our medical "discoveries" are merely narration of the slow decline of our physical powers of resilience.
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I read reports stating that our ancestors slept in intervals instead of one continuous session. 2 hours here, 1 hour there, another 3 hours over there.
When I think about how revitalizing a short 15-30min nap can be, that theory doesn't seem to be too crazy.
 
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I get 8 hours of sleep a day... what I get at night is extra...:)

Seriously, for years I got by on 6. I was training hard, and performing well. Granted, I don't really know how much better I could have been on a full 8...
 
I find I am similar to @Kettlebelephant in that I sleep longer in winter. When the sun is down by 6pm and isn't out until 8 am, I feel like I need more. In summer, the reverse is true. I need a good 8hr to function optimally in winter, and probably 7-7.5 in summer. Even at 8 hrs, sometimes I need a nap or two depending how busy I get at work.

I've made a conscious effort in the last year to really try to improve recovery aspects of my life. Sleep has been one. Tightening up nutrition a little bit, incorporating some mindfulness/meditative practices most mornings, as well as 1-2x a week I try to do contrast baths (luckily I have free access to a steam room at work), where I do 4-5 rounds of 3 minutes of steam, 30 seconds in a cold shower. Find this is so refreshing. Working in the fitness industry, I'm on my feet all day, up/down, demo'ing exercises. Plus my 3x week workouts coupled with 2-3 3x a week martial arts, I don't think I would be able to handle it all without conscious recovery practices.
 
@Geoff Chafe Since my twins were born in December, I have had to really schedule my day to cut out any unnecessary BS time killers that can take away precious time from sleep, family, training or reading. Getting 6-7 hours consistently has been achievable but it takes sticking to the schedule and teamwork with my wife to pull it off.
 
I have two kids and to be honest I can't remember when I slept 8h. Actually, can hardly remember when I had 4h of undisturbed sleep. But I'm alive and it seems everything is ok. Mayby not everyone need full 8h to recover?
 
I would suggest looking up some talks by doc Kirk Parsley. I learned from him that the 7.5-9 hours number comes from studies in which people are locked in the dark with a comfy bed for 14 hours at night. At first the sleep more than normal. Eventually after days their sleep drops and on average they around 8 hours consistently. And lay awake in the dark the rest of the 14. Essentially it's the number of hours the body would take without other constraints. Or other loads, like heavy lifting.
 
I was temporarily laid off from work last year for 4 months. I was the Househusband. My wife supported me taking some time for myself because it was temporary and I sacrifice a lot for our family. I took care of the household duties, slept, ate, and exercised. I went to yoga in the mornings, walked the dogs 2 hours plus a day, and went to the gym for 1.5-2 hours most days. It was winter so I got a lot of Nordic and Downhill sking in. I had no stress and it was one of the best times in my life, even though I was laid off. I definitely slept 8 hours and napped after training mid day. I was living the life, but you need money to live.

I got recalled to work, and I had coworkers who had known me for over 10 years asking me what the hell I had been doing, and I was taking steroids or something. When I went back to my "normal" working life. Sleep and everything else dropped away, and I got very discouraged, had no extra time or energy, and that is when I stopped training with any consistency until the beginning of this year.

To me that proves the value of sleep. Sleep is like the PED's we all wish we could use. Oh what it would be like to be rich and not have to work.
 
We all have 24 hours a day. After genetics and learned habits it is all prioritization. It's the same with strength training and sports, it is known that it is good for people to do exercise for hours a day instead of hours a week. Rare are the people who do that, if they are not in a physical job.

The effects of the amounts of sports and sleep differ in people, which in long term can be explained by the genetics, and in short term by the habits. For some people it is possible to mold your everyday life to resemble your ideals more by changing the habits, it can be a painful journey but it can be done. Fighting against your genetics is a painful battle you can only lose.

I too notice that my need for sleep can vary a lot. I also don't need a whole night of sleep if I can sleep during the day, even if in shorter but more often naps. About ten years ago I did best with sleep a little bit less than seven hours, these days I prefer almost an hour more. I also notice that excess sleep can be bad for me, as in getting more tired more easily during the day.
 
Hello,

I usually spleep 6 hours a night sleep since always. Some folks need more, some others need even less. For a while, I even use polyphasic sleep (Polyphasic Sleep Beginners Start Here) with excellent results. I got more time, without energy loss (for instance, I keep training as the usual). Nonetheless, this pace is fragile because one can not skip too many naps

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
@Geoff Chafe, from what you've said, I offer the simple advice of trying to get to sleep earlier. It might mean less awake-but-down time, but that's life sometimes. Maybe there is something, now that you're working again, that you can pay someone else to do.

Some people like catching up on sleep one day a week - everything I've read said it doesn't really work, but you could try having a day when you sleep a few extra hours and try to get midday nap in, too.

-S-
 
These days Im good with 6 hours. Last week I got like 4 hours a couple of nights in a row and the third day I really felt weird.
Also, it is a matter of quality, not quantity. I worked on a project about brainwaves and how to study(and modify) those for improvement but lost track of it time ago. Anyway, I guess brain would be nicely rested, but what about the other body parts? muscles recovering from heavy workouts, for instance.

I remember too Arnold advice: sleep 6 hours tops, or sleep faster lol
 
@Steve Freides I need to be more strict about not bringing my IPad to bed with me. I often have trouble sleeping, even when running on 4-5 hours of sleep. When changing from overnight shift to day shift, and vice versa, I have trouble adapting, and must resort to sleep aids like over the counter sleep medications and low dose melatonin.

I could not agree more to go to bed earlier. Which I generally do, but falling asleep earlier is more difficult for me. Working shift work has really been changing my sleep habits. I do catch up on sleep when I can, but I have developed far from healthy sleep habits.
 
Gadgets at bedtime aren't good for some people. Even reading doesn't work for me.

-S-
 
Geoff Chafe said:
@Steve Freides I need to be more strict about not bringing my IPad to bed with me. I often have trouble sleeping, even when running on 4-5 hours of sleep. When changing from overnight shift to day shift, and vice versa, I have trouble adapting, and must resort to sleep aids like over the counter sleep medications and low dose melatonin.

I could not agree more to go to bed earlier. Which I generally do, but falling asleep earlier is more difficult for me. Working shift work has really been changing my sleep habits. I do catch up on sleep when I can, but I have developed far from healthy sleep habits.
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@Geoff Chafe @Steve Freides +1 For keeping away the iPad before bed. This counts for all devices with a screen, because those screens emit blue light and this blue light will hinder your body to produce substances that are necessary to fall asleep.

Now, there are apps that change the display color according to day-time. Am using that a lot if I have to code long into the night. Otherwise I have no chance of falling asleep for many hours.

Here is just one of the many articles on the internet that describe it:
How to use screens at night without ruining your sleep
 
I wear 100% blue blocking glasses in the evening cause I'm cool like that.

Also use the blue dimming functions on my apple devices.
 
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