Kettlebell Snatch weight too light for beginners?

[guardian7]

I am learning the snatch with a light bell 14kg to work on form. The bell is feeling too light on my right but the timing etc is still off on the left arm.
Is the snatch like the KB swing where you can go too light so that you don't get that kind of pendulum effect to force you to hinge properly?

I am 51 and my press ladder weight is 20kg, so not advanced.

On the other hand, I read that programs like Viking conditioning are done with 16kg bells, and I get enough of a cardio effect even with such a light bell.

Do I keep with the 14kg until I can get 100 reps in five min, or would switching to my 20kg with a focus on form practice with reduced volume, maybe triples be best for me to learn to snatch do you think?

Or two form days a week and one volume day on Fridays for example?

Long-term goal is master's standard SFG 1, 100 reps with 20kg.

Hands sore (light loaded carries for distance and chinup part of my program) but no forearm bruising. Calluses forming well and not breaking. Shoulders very mildly sore even after pairing snatch practice with chinups, glutes and calves sore. So, patterns of soreness good I think.

I have plenty of sources on snatch technique from SF and Geoff Neuport. My question is more about choosing weight, volume, and frequency of practice for beginners.

Coaching is not an option this summer.

 

[Oso Rojo]

Do you have a bigger bell? If so, then try a couple. I think the snatch even more than the swing you need some mass on the bell to really get the technique dialed down right. Are you doing hard style or sport style? I do hard style and the punch through movement at the top is easy to cheat with a light bell, but as it get's heavier you have to do it right.

 

[guardian7]

Do you have a bigger bell? If so, then try a couple. I think the snatch even more than the swing you need some mass on the bell to really get the technique dialed down right. Are you doing hard style or sport style? I do hard style and the punch through movement at the top is easy to cheat with a light bell, but as it get's heavier you have to do it right.

I have a 14, 16, and 20. However, my 16 is a cheap one I got second hand for free and it has a slight chip that I am worried will tear up my hand., but that also feels too light whereas the 20 feels good on the right but not left, but I can't sustain many reps yet. Hardstyle. Yeah, that is exactly it. I feel I could punch it through with almost no hinge, like high pull it up. I am using Pavel M.'s recent article to get both hands swinging to help the swing. However, I think the body makes you unconsciously conserve energy if it feels like you don't need it just like muscle fibers don't turn on until they are needed.

Weight even more than the swing. OK. I wanted to hear something like that thanks. I kind of like the slight bit of fear you get with the heavy snatch or bench press that really makes you focus.

I guess I could start with a few practice rounds of 20 and finish the workout with volume with the 14 when I am a bit fatigued. The problem is that I carry the bells to a nearby river park.

 

[Anna C]

I think you can get a lot of mileage out of 14kg. When it feels easy, go heavier!

Do I keep with the 14kg until I can get 100 reps in five min, or would switching to my 20kg with a focus on form practice with reduced volume, maybe triples be best for me to learn to snatch do you think?

I would say somewhere between those. Stay with 14kg until you can easily do 100 snatches in a session in sets of 5-20. Don't worry about the 5 minutes. Then work on 3-rep sets with the 20kg, slowly building volume. When you want a conditioning day, do longer sets with the 14kg (2-3 sets of 40-50). When that seems easy, do a 5-min test with the 14kg. Meanwhile work towards 5-rep sets/repeats with the 20kg.

 

[Oso Rojo]

guardian7,
Listen to Anna, she got my snatch on track and moving forward. So what she says is the truth to me!

 

[guardian7]

guardian7,
Listen to Anna, she got my snatch on track and moving forward. So what she says is the truth to me!

She is very knowledgeable and generous with her time giving specific, individualized, well considered advice including to beginners on this forum. I completely agree.

 

[IMayAgainKnowChris]

I am learning the snatch with a light bell 14kg to work on form. The bell is feeling too light on my right but the timing etc is still off on the left arm.
Is the snatch like the KB swing where you can go too light so that you don't get that kind of pendulum effect to force you to hinge properly?

I am 51 and my press ladder weight is 20kg, so not advanced.

On the other hand, I read that programs like Viking conditioning are done with 16kg bells, and I get enough of a cardio effect even with such a light bell.

Do I keep with the 14kg until I can get 100 reps in five min, or would switching to my 20kg with a focus on form practice with reduced volume, maybe triples be best for me to learn to snatch do you think?

Or two form days a week and one volume day on Fridays for example?

Long-term goal is master's standard SFG 1, 100 reps with 20kg.

Hands sore (light loaded carries for distance and chinup part of my program) but no forearm bruising. Calluses forming well and not breaking. Shoulders very mildly sore even after pairing snatch practice with chinups, glutes and calves sore. So, patterns of soreness good I think.

I have plenty of sources on snatch technique from SF and Geoff Neuport. My question is more about choosing weight, volume, and frequency of practice for beginners.

Coaching is not an option this summer.

I’m pretty new to Pavels stuff. Used to do CrossFit though. I can tell you there were definitely times where I went lighter and couldn’t use proper form with a few things. I tried to swing my 20lb KB and just can’t seem to get it right but a 35lb I can feel what is right and wrong. I was also doing getups with the 16kg and was strong enough to hold the bell in improper positions and get away with it. When I switched to the 24kg the bell let me know what time it was. I’d imagine a snatch would have a Goldilocks weight for practice.

 

[guardian7]

I’m pretty new to Pavels stuff. Used to do CrossFit though. I can tell you there were definitely times where I went lighter and couldn’t use proper form with a few things. I tried to swing my 20lb KB and just can’t seem to get it right but a 35lb I can feel what is right and wrong. I was also doing getups with the 16kg and was strong enough to hold the bell in improper positions and get away with it. When I switched to the 24kg the bell let me know what time it was. I’d imagine a snatch would have a Goldilocks weight for practice.

I am going to go with Anna's suggestion because although I agree with you in general, there is an important conditioning/volume component of the snatch (and swing) compared to the press. If you do 5*5 sets of challenging presses then you have a pretty good workout but for the snatch or swing, you are just getting started. I guess the question is whether the bell is heavy enough to do the reps properly. In some cases, especially with women, it seems like inexperienced trainers and cultural conditioning make them start with bells so light that they can't get a pendulum swing. Women have a much better ratio of lower than upper body strength to me as we know. I see women at the healthclub not challenging themselves enough with light high rep deadlifts, for example. Unfortunately a 14kg is enough for me to get a good workout at this point as I am struggling with getting the drop right and can only take so much with my hands right now as they get conditioned. I haven't been doing swings lately is another factor. Once I get the volum in as Anna said then I will do the repeat triples with my target bell, the 20. When that is going well, I will use a 24 in order to make my goal of the 5 min snatch test master's with a 20 seem easier.