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Kettlebell Squat goals

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Simply strong

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What would people recommend for a double front squat goal?

For example the press has the goal of 5 ladders x 1-5 in rite of passage, the swing and snatch have the 100 reps in 5 min goal.

If I were to train front squats (asymmetrical or with even bells) as a main lift, what would be a good goal to guarantee I could squat a heavier load?
I’ve thought about doing the rite of passage ladders with pistol squats but I’m not a huge fan of pistols.
 
If I were to train front squats (asymmetrical or with even bells) as a main lift, what would be a good goal to guarantee I could squat a heavier load?

I'm thinking the squat, perhaps more than any other lift, really has to be loaded progressively heavier in order to get progressively stronger (i.e. squat a heavier load). I don't think you're going to get far with volume at a fixed weight. But I could be wrong... we'll see what others suggest.
 
I did GTG Kickstand Squats and One Leg Squats last year. I went from a one leg squat of 55lb to a one leg squat of 100lb, and I became very comfortable holding the 80lb bell in the rack (the 100lb bell still felt heavy when I changed programs).

If it works in your schedule, I recommend The Naked Warrior; its awesome (and I assume it should work the same for Front Squat)
 
I guess any kind of format could work if done sensibly. I hate to be "that guy" to spit out workouts, but who has never done them before, but here goes. You could take a variation from the "3 to 5" program that Pavel has in "Beyond Bodybuilding" It could be programmed like this:
* start at a weight you can do 5-8 reps with
* Start cycle with 3 sets x 3 reps
* take 3 to 5 minutes rest between sets
* Workout 3 times a week, with at least 1 day of rest in-between
* Slowly add in more sets, til you are at 5 sets
* when you are at 5 sets, increase the reps, til you get to 5x5
* take a couple of days off and test your self with a heavier weight.
* With your new heavier 5-8 rep max, start a new cycle
*Pavel also suggested that this scheme could be done with 3 to 5 different exercises at once. At least 3 of them being major compound lifts (squats, hinges, presses, pulls) And, you could split off different exercises to separate days as long as you practice each lift every 3rd to 5th day

In all fairness, I once did a similar progression in some goblet squat challenge, where I was going almost daily, and I would progress in sets of 5. That frequency and quick progression is probably not appropriate here for a sustainable program.

As far as a goal weight, that's individual. I don't know of any strength standard for double kettlebell squats, but If I was doing 5x5 with two 48kg bells, That would be worthy of me posting a form check on here with me wearing no shirt & my speedo's

Good Luck!
 
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Personally I believe around 20 reps in a set with a given load and then you absolutely need more weight. By the time you can reliably hit 10 or so you can rest assured your legs at least could easily handle more weight. Another factor you can manipulate is the lifting cadence - switching to a slower eccentric/faster concentric will get more from whatever weight you're using.

It would be good to increase the minute you can crank off no more than 8 reps or so, but for double front squat, your ability to clean and then maintain in the rack is going to be the limiting factor, not your legs - they'll be ready for more well ahead of your upper body's capacity.

As for a good goal I'd say once you get up around 80% or more of your bodyweight for reps you're doing pretty good - at 175lbs BW that would be a pair of 32s.

When I last trained double front squat I ran out of weight to add at 75% of my BW and was hitting 15reps or more AMRAP, really had felt like I needed more weight for quite some time but didn't feel like I was wasting my time ether - that's when I switched over to rear leg elevated split squats.
 
KB double front squats are one of my favorite drills.

You don't have to overthink it. I often just do 3-5 sets of 3-5 reps on a regular basis with the same weight for long periods of time, similar to what @Papa Georgio describes above, but not with any systematic progression. When the weight starts feeling overly comfortable, I go heavier.

I've also done a lot of double front squats as part of complexes, such as in Geoff Neupert's KB Muscle. Another complex I like is double clean and front squat ladders (which I got from Dan John). Without putting the bells down, do 1 DCL/1 DFSQ; 2 DCL/2 DFSQ, etc. You can progress these similar to the Rite of Passage, starting at 3 ladders up to 3, then progressing to 5 ladders up to 3, then adding rungs to the ladders. I really enjoy this one because double cleans are another of my favorites.

BTW, I hate doing assymetrical doubles. There's nothing necessarily wrong with them, but I don't like the way they feel, and one of my main criteria for choosing a drill is whether I enjoy it.
 
I'm thinking the squat, perhaps more than any other lift, really has to be loaded progressively heavier in order to get progressively stronger (i.e. squat a heavier load). I don't think you're going to get far with volume at a fixed weight.
I think volume at a fixed weight can lead to the hypertrophy needs in order to increase the strength. Is that not fair? :p
 
I think volume at a fixed weight can lead to the hypertrophy needs in order to increase the strength. Is that not fair? :p

Yes, valid point... though we don't often hear about hypertrophy cycles for the lower body... why is that?
 
Yes, valid point... though we don't often hear about hypertrophy cycles for the lower body... why is that?
I think most guys don't mind that classic lollipop look. We skip leg day most the time anyway.

But seriously, I agree with you, that using manageable progressions in weight is the fastest way to progress in strength. Using weight progressions will enable you to stay within a narrower rep range if you have a specific goal (absolute strength, hypertrophy, etc).

Using the kettlebells, with the big jumps in weight increments, you have to build up volume to make those bigger jumps, and it will take longer (and/or more reps) to progress. Doing it this way blurs across different rep ranges, so its harder to target a specific aspect such as strength or hypertrophy (its more blended). I think in that respect, its like built in periodization, and fine for most general fitness enthusiasts.
 
1/2 bodyweight in each hand for 1 solid rep is a good standard for strength. I like ramping up to heavy weights for lower body strength. For me personally the 5x2 or 10x1 schemes seem to only help with competency at a set weight.

The muscles in the legs have a near 50% split between fast and slow twitch fiber composition. Plus or minus based on training adaptation and genetics. Therefore heavy singles and sets above 10 reps could both helpful.
 
High rep squatting is a popular recipe for hypertrophy. I wonder why kbs wouldn't work.

It works for me, up to a point. Once you start getting much above 12-15 reps with a given load, the size gains really slow down. Reading the studies, if you do a lot of this to failure you can still make size gains, but that is a lot of time under load, a lot of time to hold comparatively heavy KBs in the rack in what amounts to an isometric exertion, high potential for burnout.

Double front squats up to sets of 12 or so definitely puts some size on my quads that wasn't happening at 6 reps/set.
 
What would people recommend for a double front squat goal?

For example the press has the goal of 5 ladders x 1-5 in rite of passage, the swing and snatch have the 100 reps in 5 min goal.

If I were to train front squats (asymmetrical or with even bells) as a main lift, what would be a good goal to guarantee I could squat a heavier load?
I’ve thought about doing the rite of passage ladders with pistol squats but I’m not a huge fan of pistols.

With the exception of deadlifts, I like to start a weight in the 3-5 range and then "own" it in the 50% of max repeat set range (strongfirst HIIT style not HIT) range before adding weight. I think this is a better way to approach the strength/hypertrophy issue. Why not both?
 
half-body weight single kettlebell front squat for 10 reps.
bodyweight double kettlebell front squat for 10 reps.
That would be good in my book :)
I cannot praise the kettlebell front squat enough.
About the load, some exercises make you feel better even with moderate weight. TGU, Swing and Squat. I love to spend few seconds at bottom of the front squat ( being comfortable with the uncomfortable). I feel strong. Not the kind of strong you feel when you pull/ push/ squat heavy (when load >3 RM), but the kind of strong when everything is "smoothly".
I hope that make sense :)

Talk about kettlebell front squat, can we discuss more about the clean, because it's a way to bring the bell to the rack position. A good clean leads to a good squat, yes?

Few weeks before, i posted my clip MP 33+30. Few days before i press 33+33. I tried 33+36, ok, the bells went up but not so pretty, so my max with MP is 66 kg. I weight 67-69 kg, depend on the day. That was a result from a lot of front squat and few heavy double clean.
 
Talk about kettlebell front squat, can we discuss more about the clean, because it's a way to bring the bell to the rack position. A good clean leads to a good squat, yes?

That gets to my item of curiosity. Maybe I'm missing something, coming from the barbell side of things, but it seems like the clean is going to limit you more than the legs. How many of you are able to do a double clean and then NOT be able to squat them for reps?
 
That gets to my item of curiosity. Maybe I'm missing something, coming from the barbell side of things, but it seems like the clean is going to limit you more than the legs. How many of you are able to do a double clean and then NOT be able to squat them for reps?

I topped out a 32 and 28, mostly because I didn't have any heavier bells. At a guess I'd say I could have done 36s, probably not 40s, and was using an awful lot of quad to fire them into the rack. If I rolled even one of them onto my trap I could increasing my reps quite a bit, rolling both onto my traps I could double my reps.

So not just the clean aspect, but holding them in the rack, and it only gets tougher as your set length increases.

Squat variations really effect the work your legs see per rep based on how it is supported, from back squat to front, Zircher, offset, etc, not all of it by changing lever arms.
 
...I’m not a huge fan of pistols.
I just wanted to throw out there that I'm currently doing loaded skater squats (aka air lunge) as my main squat movement. Skater squats have much lower mobility requirements than pistols. If you want a more upright torso and stability, Bulgarian split squat and regular lunges. (One downside of these variations is that you don't go below parallel, but I do them while standing on a ream of paper or two, which solves this problem. This works with BSS, too, and if you're confident the block won't slip, it also works for rear lunges.)

side note: I read in TNW that Pavel doesn't recommend loading the "airborne lunge," but doesn't say why. (I am particularly confounded b/c my kindle version of the book seems to have the airborne lunge section left out, so I don't even know if the exercise I know as the air lunge is the same one described in the book. Also mentioned but not covered are renegade pistols, and fire in the hole pistols.) I've not been doing them for many years and I'm not a coach; I can only say that the exercise feels great to me. The only risk I can imagine is low-back stress due to lumbar flexion at the bottom, but afaict there's more low-back flexion with pistols, so I'm at a loss.
 
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