Squats necessary for military fitness of deads + KBs enough?

coolrunnings

Double-Digit Post Count
Thanks all for the brilliant guidance.

I will focus on basic barbell strength (5/3/1 or tactical barbell) and building up a running base and will report back in c.12 months.
 

Steve Freides

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Senior Certified Instructor
@coolrunnings, there are lots of assumptions in your first post. Just get stronger; how isn't the most important thing. Have a complete physical exam before you start, and a movement screen, too.

Get one of our basic programs - Kettlebell Simple and Sinister, or Power To The People, or Enter The Kettlebell - and follow it. I will disagree with some of my fellow forum members; I don't recommend any of the other, non-StrongFirst recommendations you've received for barbell programs, online articles, and the like. I know my opinion might be considered biased, but I think we do what you need better than any other organization out there, period. After you've completed one of the above - achieved Simple, deadlifted double bodyweight, or completed the Rite of Passage, respectively - then go explore what's out there if you wish.

I recommend looking at the thread in our Kettlebell section that contains the stories of people who've achieved Simple, and that's my first recommendation to you.

-S-
 

coolrunnings

Double-Digit Post Count
@coolrunnings, there are lots of assumptions in your first post. Just get stronger; how isn't the most important thing. Have a complete physical exam before you start, and a movement screen, too.

Get one of our basic programs - Kettlebell Simple and Sinister, or Power To The People, or Enter The Kettlebell - and follow it. I will disagree with some of my fellow forum members; I don't recommend any of the other, non-StrongFirst recommendations you've received for barbell programs, online articles, and the like. I know my opinion might be considered biased, but I think we do what you need better than any other organization out there, period. After you've completed one of the above - achieved Simple, deadlifted double bodyweight, or completed the Rite of Passage, respectively - then go explore what's out there if you wish.

I recommend looking at the thread in our Kettlebell section that contains the stories of people who've achieved Simple, and that's my first recommendation to you.

-S-
Thank you Steve. I really appreciate your help and you do an amazing job keeping this forum such a valuable resource.

Got a 14 on my FMS (1 on ASLR) so am spending the next 6 weeks slowly building up lifting volume whole addressing my FMS weaknesses. I will then re-test and won't start loading until I have all green lights.

I have glanced at the ''I have acheived Simple" thread before. I will read through in ddtail today.

In your opinion, and given the timings involved, would I be better served working up to sinister over two years (seems realistic) rather than spending a year under the barbell and then a year working up to simple?

Thanks again
 

kiwipete

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
Hey @coolrunnings,

Apologies for my rant, these studies get me worked up....

I'm sure it's been said before...Don't get caught up in studies.

If you want to pass these courses you need:

1) Proper mental preparation
2) Sensible, steady build up of strength and aerobic capacity over a prolonged period of time (many months and years)
3) Skill acquisition (navigation etc)

These studies are bullsh#t. I have worked with and met plenty of 'special' people who could NOT squat those weights BUT they passed their respective selection courses by doing the basics well and being very mentally robust. You cannot quantify those qualities into a 5 second squat. That's why selections are long and drawn out... to paraphrase a well known book title, "It's not about the squat".

Stay away from scientific studies about success. Listen to real people who have been successful. Do the basics well and you will smash the course.
 

coolrunnings

Double-Digit Post Count
Hey @coolrunnings,

Apologies for my rant, these studies get me worked up....

I'm sure it's been said before...Don't get caught up in studies.

If you want to pass these courses you need:

1) Proper mental preparation
2) Sensible, steady build up of strength and aerobic capacity over a prolonged period of time (many months and years)
3) Skill acquisition (navigation etc)

These studies are bullsh#t. I have worked with and met plenty of 'special' people who could NOT squat those weights BUT they passed their respective selection courses by doing the basics well and being very mentally robust. You cannot quantify those qualities into a 5 second squat. That's why selections are long and drawn out... to paraphrase a well known book title, "It's not about the squat".

Stay away from scientific studies about success. Listen to real people who have been successful. Do the basics well and you will smash the course.
Thanks for the advice

So do you think id be better served working on sinister over two years vs. one year of barbell training and one year of working up to simple? (Prior to a specific prep plan that would be the same in either case)
 

kiwipete

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
I think follow Al Ciampa's advice re: barbell.

"...run a basic barbell plan that slowly increases your strength alongside all of this jogging. More frequent, moderately-loaded, low rep sets in high volume.."
 

Al Ciampa

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
Certified Instructor
Are you looking for committee approval before execution?

I have to admit that it is difficult for me to put myself in one’s shoes who is, these days, starting on a physical training journey. When I started, I went to a gym that had guys who lifted heavy weights, and they taught me. They didn’t give me any options. This is the frustrating side of the internet.

You have to have some faith in the beginning, but honestly, you have enough time to fail, and so learn, on your own.

Moreover, just about everyone who gave advice said more or less the same thing: run a lot, and lift weights. The expression (boxed programs) might sound different, but in practice, they’re far more similar than different. So, you’ve actually received committee approval, making the faith that a novice requires, stronger.

Now... do: report back in 6 months. Earlier only if you hit unexpected walls.
 

coolrunnings

Double-Digit Post Count
Are you looking for committee approval before execution?

I have to admit that it is difficult for me to put myself in one’s shoes who is, these days, starting on a physical training journey. When I started, I went to a gym that had guys who lifted heavy weights, and they taught me. They didn’t give me any options. This is the frustrating side of the internet.

You have to have some faith in the beginning, but honestly, you have enough time to fail, and so learn, on your own.

Moreover, just about everyone who gave advice said more or less the same thing: run a lot, and lift weights. The expression (boxed programs) might sound different, but in practice, they’re far more similar than different. So, you’ve actually received committee approval, making the faith that a novice requires, stronger.

Now... do: report back in 6 months. Earlier only if you hit unexpected walls.
Thanks Al. I won't be executing for 6w, hence the time for discussion. In the meantime I am focusing on moving better and fixing my FMS score.
 

Anna C

More than 5000 posts
Elite Certified Instructor
In the meantime I am focusing on moving better and fixing my FMS score.
won't start loading until I have all green lights.
I've got to weigh in on this one. Please don't wait 6 weeks to start moving some weight. I promise you will move better if you lift weights, focus on your form, and work through your obstacles as you progress. If you are able to execute good (and by that I mean decent, not perfect) loaded movement, don't worry about your FMS score.
 

coolrunnings

Double-Digit Post Count
I've got to weigh in on this one. Please don't wait 6 weeks to start moving some weight. I promise you will move better if you lift weights, focus on your form, and work through your obstacles as you progress. If you are able to execute good (and by that I mean decent, not perfect) loaded movement, don't worry about your FMS score.
Thanks Anna. I don't have any prominent issues or symptoms, and my form is good, but my FMS screener said he wasn't comfortable with me squatting or swinging until I get my ASLR score up. While I work on the correctives I was planning to start some light loaded exercises such as single leg deadlift, loaded carries, etc.
 

RS12

Double-Digit Post Count
Seriously, what Anna C said is correct. Unless you are completely jacked up there is no need to wait 6 weeks before you start swinging and lifting. Start light and add weight as you are able.

I know they say don't build on your dysfunction but how dysfunctional can you possibly be? Have you been in a major accident or are you just living a sedentary lifestyle?

FMS is a cool tool but you are a young guy and I highly doubt you are so jacked up that you have to wait 6 weeks before you can swing a kettlebell or pick up a barbell. You will build mobility through doing the movements while you are building strength. You can also increase your mobility by stretching and going on regular walks.

Make sure you use good form while lifting and you will reduce your chances of injury greatly. Practice your abdominal bracing while deadlifting lighter weights and then progress to heavier weights. Bracing is extremely important and you need to practice it from the beginning.

This is just my opinion but it has worked for me and many others. I've never done an FMS or ASLR and I'd wager most of the others on here haven't either. I've only been seriously lifting for about 4 years and I have a ton of injuries from the Army and that hasn't stopped me from getting stronger.

Just so you get an idea of what I'm talking about I'm 5'6, 170 lbs, and I squat 340, deadlift 430, and bench 250 at 38 years of age. I'm not strong but I'm not weak either and I'm much smaller than you. You are big, young and fairly injury free. Stop focusing so much on your FMS and start moving weight.
 

Oscar

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
@Steve Freides, for the three programs you suggested (pttp, S&S and ROP) would you suggest any running to go with? If so, how would you program it?
 

vegpedlr

More than 500 posts
Further support the idea of starting now. You could do Easy Strength while focusing mostly on correctives. Then, pick a program and go.

Regardless of what programs, in what order, you choose, do read the Tactical Barbell material. Lots of good info, and the discussion is framed by the needs of active military and law enforcement. Strength, conditioning, and programming are all covered.
 

North Coast Miller

More than 2500 posts
I like the Bro Mo template as a maintenance style or as a focus on endurance. Different strokes for different folks.
This is about as well balanced as you can dream up, single out two lifts/week for more strength and two for more volume, alternating through the list. What reasonable task wouldn't this prepare you for?

If I knew then, what I know now or if my son were preparing for the military I would have him do this for a long time:
Monday: Squat, Bench, Ab Roller, Bent/Seated Row
Tuesday: Long Easy Run
Wednesday: Long Easy Run/Swim
Thursday: Deadlift, Press, Pull-Up, Dip
Friday: Long Easy Ruck/Swim
Saturday: Tempo Run/Ruck/Swim Intervals​
 
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