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Bodyweight Strength and Volume, The Conundrum

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Nathan

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While most know that military / law enforcement tests require testing pull-ups, push-ups, sit-ups, and even crunches over a specific period of time. I guess the million dollar question is; will pure calisthenics strength work carry-over to having the ability to perform these tests adequately? For example, if I never go higher than maybe 3 or 5 rep sets with pull-ups, but instead begin adding weight, will I gain the ability to perform 20 pull-ups? Inversely, will the ability to do 20 pull-ups allow me to do 3 to 5 pull-ups with a significant load? Or maybe their needs to be work done on either spectrum?

I have read, however, that someone who spends more time and effort overhead pressing (i.e. handstand push-ups) will be a fairly good bench-presser (i.e. push-ups). So possibly that is one route to go for minimizing time / movements and maximizing efficiency / strength.

I guess the question draws from several reasons: (1) I want to maximize every single workout, (2) I want to minimize my time commitment so their is more time for family and other chores around the house, (3) I am inherently lazy and while I will certainly put in the effort, I don't like wasting my time.

Sometimes I have conflicting thoughts I cannot resolve without putting them out there for discussion. I am waffling between the Strong First calisthenics strength plan or a higher volume plan from Stew Smith, or a combination...
 
I am retired from the US Army and the short answer is train on all of the tested events.

Of course a good fitness program is more than a test of a few events so a variety of activities should be performed.
 
IMHO being able to perform one-arm push ups doesn't guarantee 80 reps of standard push ups, for example. (although there's definitely some carry over) Practicing standard push-ups with high volume every now and again will, but it doesn't have to be at the exclusion of low rep strength training.
Regardless of how you approach preparing for the PFT I would recommend testing yourself on the movements ahead of time and not leave it to chance. Set aside a training day maybe even bi-weekly and do 2 mins of max push ups, 2 mins of max pull-ups, sit-ups, etc. and then a run.
 
Hello,

Nothing beats specificity. If an event requires high reps push ups, then high reps push ups training seems to be the most intuitive and adequat strategy. However, nothing prevent you from low rep training with other and harder move variation to get variety.

To a certain extent, varying the versions permit to reap all the benefits, but the goal has to remain the goal

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
One cant be good at everything.Put your ego aside and dont get hell bent over rep numbers unless you have to beat certain fitness parameters--better to show up,be consistent and avoid injury.Focus on one or two objectives and get better at that.
 
I'll share an approach that's worked for me to increase my pullup rep count.

Once a week, do a short warmup, rest, then near-max effort. ("Near max" - sometimes called a training max, sometimes other things, but the idea is max reps without failure, IOW, you will start your last rep knowing it's going to be hard but confident that you can grind it out. You _won't_ start any rep you're not confident of completing.)

E.g., let's say your rep max is 15 and you can confidently get 13 legal reps without fear of failure. Once a week, go for your near-max, planning it in cycles so, e.g., 11, 12, 13 over three weeks, then 8 as a backoff week, then 12, 13, 14 as your next 3-week push forward, etc. Go by feel - if you feel you can add 2 reps one week, that's fine. OTOH, if you get to the second week and you feel lousy, call it a backoff week and start building up again the next week.

Twice a week, 3-5 sets of - here's the math - 50% max reps but weighted to feel like a 70-80% effort.

For these other two sessions, try weighting yourself with 10 kg, a weight that you might max out on at 9 reps, but do sets of 6. That's one example - supply your own numbers.

This is a way to have your cake and eat it, too. The sort-of-weighted work in the 50% rep range of your bodyweight-only max will help you get stronger, and it will also help your rep max.

This is just a variation on the classic light-medium-heavy rotation - it's one near-max effort per week, and the other two days are tilted towards strength in a way that can still help your rep count @ bodyweight only.

I recommend these three days be the only upper body exercise on those days, but something else, e.g., pistols, could be done along with them. You could also consider adding a backoff set on the near-max day if you're up for it, perhaps with a chinup or neutral grip is those are easier for you, or perhaps just a lower rep count. If you're using a near-max and not an all-out max, this should be possible and the additional volume will also help.

This was the plan I executed that got me to 19 reps @ bw + 20 lbs., close to the old Spetznats (sp?) standard of 20 reps @ bw + 10 kg. My two other days were done weighted with a kettlebell on a belt in the 12-20 kg range.

-S-
 
I think it easier to get strong muscles to grow for volume than the opposite. I think a 315lb bench presser will get to 80 pushups faster than an 80 pushuper will get to 315lb bench press. I agree that it makes sense to train each one once per week and any addition sessions to bias strength during general base phases and endurance during specific peaking phases.

All that said, my best >100 rep PT tests were all when I was doing 3x8-12 incline dumbbell presses twice per week and a decent amount of dips and triceps extensions after.
 
While most know that military / law enforcement tests require testing pull-ups, push-ups, sit-ups, and even crunches over a specific period of time. I guess the million dollar question is; will pure calisthenics strength work carry-over to having the ability to perform these tests adequately? For example, if I never go higher than maybe 3 or 5 rep sets with pull-ups, but instead begin adding weight, will I gain the ability to perform 20 pull-ups? Inversely, will the ability to do 20 pull-ups allow me to do 3 to 5 pull-ups with a significant load? Or maybe their needs to be work done on either spectrum?

I have read, however, that someone who spends more time and effort overhead pressing (i.e. handstand push-ups) will be a fairly good bench-presser (i.e. push-ups). So possibly that is one route to go for minimizing time / movements and maximizing efficiency / strength.

I guess the question draws from several reasons: (1) I want to maximize every single workout, (2) I want to minimize my time commitment so their is more time for family and other chores around the house, (3) I am inherently lazy and while I will certainly put in the effort, I don't like wasting my time.

Sometimes I have conflicting thoughts I cannot resolve without putting them out there for discussion. I am waffling between the Strong First calisthenics strength plan or a higher volume plan from Stew Smith, or a combination...


I am not entirely sure. When I took the deputy test I crushed the pushup component without doing any pushups for practice. I was benching with 90lb dumbbells though, sets of 6-8.

Extra strength can make for a big reserve on higher volume but there is no substitute for the type of endurance you will need for the test - it can get you well along but if you are testing volume you need to verify your added strength is enough in the absence of volume conditioning.

FWIW, I did not really improve my bench or pushup numbers by improving my overhead lifting - do not assume carryover benefits from any lift or movement to another without probing. Specificity is a fact.

My vote is to alternate workouts from power to conditioning and back. Using your analogy of weighted pullups, do them for two weeks and test reps. My gut tells me you will need to supplement with volume to get volume.
 
Great info @Steve Freides. This feels like an article waiting to happen!

I'll share an approach that's worked for me to increase my pullup rep count.

Once a week, do a short warmup, rest, then near-max effort. ("Near max" - sometimes called a training max, sometimes other things, but the idea is max reps without failure, IOW, you will start your last rep knowing it's going to be hard but confident that you can grind it out. You _won't_ start any rep you're not confident of completing.)

E.g., let's say your rep max is 15 and you can confidently get 13 legal reps without fear of failure. Once a week, go for your near-max, planning it in cycles so, e.g., 11, 12, 13 over three weeks, then 8 as a backoff week, then 12, 13, 14 as your next 3-week push forward, etc. Go by feel - if you feel you can add 2 reps one week, that's fine. OTOH, if you get to the second week and you feel lousy, call it a backoff week and start building up again the next week.

Twice a week, 3-5 sets of - here's the math - 50% max reps but weighted to feel like a 70-80% effort.

For these other two sessions, try weighting yourself with 10 kg, a weight that you might max out on at 9 reps, but do sets of 6. That's one example - supply your own numbers.

This is a way to have your cake and eat it, too. The sort-of-weighted work in the 50% rep range of your bodyweight-only max will help you get stronger, and it will also help your rep max.

This is just a variation on the classic light-medium-heavy rotation - it's one near-max effort per week, and the other two days are tilted towards strength in a way that can still help your rep count @ bodyweight only.

I recommend these three days be the only upper body exercise on those days, but something else, e.g., pistols, could be done along with them. You could also consider adding a backoff set on the near-max day if you're up for it, perhaps with a chinup or neutral grip is those are easier for you, or perhaps just a lower rep count. If you're using a near-max and not an all-out max, this should be possible and the additional volume will also help.

This was the plan I executed that got me to 19 reps @ bw + 20 lbs., close to the old Spetznats (sp?) standard of 20 reps @ bw + 10 kg. My two other days were done weighted with a kettlebell on a belt in the 12-20 kg range.

-S-
 
@Carl don't hold your breath waiting for that article. :) Seriously, I've got several in various stages of completion but life is just too busy right now for me to get back to them. What you see above is what you get. :)

-S-
 
The meat of it is all there @Steve Freides so not to worry. I liked the setup so will be giving it a go in future.

Great info.


@Carl don't hold your breath waiting for that article. :) Seriously, I've got several in various stages of completion but life is just too busy right now for me to get back to them. What you see above is what you get. :)

-S-
 
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