Bodyweight Strength Endurance Push Ups

[305pelusa]

But, 1h are better for strength but worse for conditioning I guess.

For strength, the 2h PU isn't even in the same league as the 1h. Training the OAPU was an extremely worthwhile pursuit back when I used TNW years ago. Done slowly, with a focus on minimal twisting, it builds very strong triceps and shoulders. It's hard to describe but you can do as many push-ups as you want, as explosive as you want, with as much tension as you want. But it never builds the "low gear" strength that the OAPU does.

As far as "conditioning" is concerned, it used to be that high rep calisthenics were the gold standard to build conditioning in the calisthenics world (and they work excellently... can't argue there). But it seems like SF has made some interesting applications of the OAPU and Pistol to build "Easy Conditioning", or A+A conditioning. As shown in these two articles:
StrongFirst Roadwork
Strength Aerobics: A Powerful Alternative to HIIT

I hardly ever do Push-ups, or OAPUs as I have shifted gears significantly towards the land of Planche training. However, though I agree there are many benefits to high rep Push-ups, I think the OAPU is generally more useful.

 

[pet']

Hello,

I think it depends on what you are training for.

For instance, a climber may need both max strength and endurance. Of course, oap builds a certain (and pretty acceptable) endurance, which make them "more prolific"

A weightlifter may need above all max strength.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[offwidth]

Even in 'climbing' there are many genres and types, and yes, the requirements may vary considerably.

Consider Pete Whittaker's recent rope solo of Freerider in Yosemite.
Over 30 pitches of 5.12+ plus climbing! Not to mention all the added shenanigans required in rope soloing. 20hrs of hard climbing. Strength and endurance. And something else...

 

[Kozushi]

One arm pushups are from God.

 

[pet']

Hello,

OAP is a move which ties everything up.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[pet']

Hello,

Here is a video of a 300 push ups a day for 30 days, done by a calisthenics guy. Pretty interesting:


Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Kozushi]

You can spend more time and get the same results done as with a better exercise and less time.

Why not do 50 one arm pushups instead of 300 two handed ones?

 

[pet']

Hello,

@Kozushi
I guess you are right !

I did 300 push ups yesterday. I think this is a good "challenge" but you have to modify your routine a little, to make it less taxing.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Kozushi]

Hello,

@Kozushi
I guess you are right !

I did 300 push ups yesterday. I think this is a good "challenge" but you have to modify your routine a little, to make it less taxing.

Kind regards,

Pet'

Pushups are good for cardio and conditioning. For building strength, not so good. But, cardio and conditioning are very important.

 

[pet']

Hello,

@Kozushi

Pushups are good for cardio and conditioning. For building strength, not so good. But, cardio and conditioning are very important.

+1 !

In France, there is a pretty "famous" training method, using only bodyweight, called "Méthode Lafay" (Lafay's Method in English). It is based on multiple sets of high reps for: push ups & rows, pull ups, chin ups, dips, abs, squats. No isolation move, only "big compounds" and agonist / antagonist pairs. Some moves use hard variations (such as pistol squats and one arm push ups). Rest are reduced to the minimum (25s between sets). So you do less and less reps when you do lots of sets.

Lots of people reported pretty good results in terms of body composition because it finally ses MAF pace. A "high but not that high HR". They also reported pretty good results in raw strength (deadlifts, loaded pull ups / dips, bench), without never training them. However, it required lots of time and practice. 2 or 3 years of practice. 75kg guy benches 130kg for instance.

This method also includes lots of flexibility work. This is a 2 or 3 times a week method.

Nonetheless, like you, I believe hard variations, slow pace and not so many reps are better for strength. Nothing beats pistols, oaol pu for strength and minimalistic approach !

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Kozushi]

Hello,

@Kozushi

+1 !

In France, there is a pretty "famous" training method, using only bodyweight, called "Méthode Lafay" (Lafay's Method in English). It is based on multiple sets of high reps for: push ups & rows, pull ups, chin ups, dips, abs, squats. No isolation move, only "big compounds" and agonist / antagonist pairs. Some moves use hard variations (such as pistol squats and one arm push ups). Rest are reduced to the minimum (25s between sets). So you do less and less reps when you do lots of sets.

Lots of people reported pretty good results in terms of body composition because it finally ses MAF pace. A "high but not that high HR". They also reported pretty good results in raw strength (deadlifts, loaded pull ups / dips, bench), without never training them. However, it required lots of time and practice. 2 or 3 years of practice. 75kg guy benches 130kg for instance.

This method also includes lots of flexibility work. This is a 2 or 3 times a week method.

Nonetheless, like you, I believe hard variations, slow pace and not so many reps are better for strength. Nothing beats pistols, oaol pu for strength and minimalistic approach !

Kind regards,

Pet'

I'm probably way stronger than these guys, me doing S&S daily.

 

[pet']

Hello,

@Kozushi
Yes, sure ! I ran that method for a while and indeed, I was stronger because I started "from scratch". Nonetheless, when I tackled bell practice, I became even stronger, with a far better strength and endurance ratio. S&S gives both conditioning AND strength, at the same level. Lafay (here for me example) mainly build conditioning and only "a little" more strength.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Kozushi]

Hello,

@Kozushi
Yes, sure ! I ran that method for a while and indeed, I was stronger because I started "from scratch". Nonetheless, when I tackled bell practice, I became even stronger, with a far better strength and endurance ratio. S&S gives both conditioning AND strength, at the same level. Lafay (here for me example) mainly build conditioning and only "a little" more strength.

Kind regards,

Pet'

I used 10X10 2h pushups in Korea last summer for conditioning and they definitely help a lot! Still, they're a joke compared with S&S. Maybe if you do 300 that's different though, hahaha!

 

[pet']

Hello,

@Kozushi
300 Hindu push ups and 300 Hindu squats will give you an excellent bodyweight conditioning routine

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[305pelusa]

I'm probably way stronger than these guys, me doing S&S daily.

I wouldn't be too sure. The Lafay method, though criticized quite a bit, has shown some pretty incredible results since it started. It has different levels (13) to progress through, so it's not just about high reps. You slowly introduce harder movements.

It is essentially unheard of here in America because it hasn't been translated to English. I'm lucky enough to be South American and a Spanish version does exist (which is good as I love to read just about everything on calisthenics). But it seems fairly effective back in Europe.

 

[Marc]

You can spend more time and get the same results done as with a better exercise and less time.

Why not do 50 one arm pushups instead of 300 two handed ones?

50 OAPU evem seems like a massive amount. You can easily do 300 regular push ups daily but 50 OAPU seems like a huge volume since they tax the wrists pretty much and are also very demanding neurologically. I would rather say, once you can do 5x5 OAPU you bettet progress towards OAOLPU since these moves are better done with a lower volume. But with regular push ups you can really bump up the volume

 

[Kozushi]

50 OAPU evem seems like a massive amount. You can easily do 300 regular push ups daily but 50 OAPU seems like a huge volume since they tax the wrists pretty much and are also very demanding neurologically. I would rather say, once you can do 5x5 OAPU you bettet progress towards OAOLPU since these moves are better done with a lower volume. But with regular push ups you can really bump up the volume

I would space out the 25-25 (5 per side per set) OAPUs throughout the day according to the GTG advice in the book. So 5R 5L is one "set" for me. I would always do 5R 5L half pistols right after the set of OAPUs. Often I'd do 3 sets of these within about 15 minutes, and sometimes all 5 sets in about 25 minutes. But this stuff left me at least pretty fat. I was strong as a bull but fat as a bull too. The 2h pushups and all the walking I did moderated my fatness a bit. Basically, I think all this stuff pales in comparison with S&S. Naked warrior is ONLY strength and balance. S&S is strength, balance, but also conditioning, fat burning.

I honestly didn't find the OAPUs too bad once I could do them. I never did that routine with the one arm one leg pushups though, but that's my goal.

But working out is FAR more than just getting stronger. Regular pushups are far better for conditioning because of the fact you can do much MUCH higher volume of them.

Actually, I'm a bit upset that I didn't figure out a true no-equipment equivalent for S&S while I was in Korea last year. I thought I'd figure something out that would keep me slim like S&S but, nope. I was herculean in strength but also fat. Not good.

I looked like the cartoon character "Gru".

 

[Marc]

If you are lookung for pure BW conditioning related stuff you might like the following:

Crawling: work up to crawl for 10mins straight

Hindu Squats&Hindu Push Ups

Burpees done maffetone style or HIIT style

 

[pet']

Hello,

@305pelusa
I did not know there were a Spanish version of Lafay ! What do you think about it ? Do you try it ? I tried it for a while with pretty good results actually. Then, I switched to a "simpler" version, using one arm push ups, pistols, slow motion pull ups and dips and dragon flag. It works very well.

@Kozushi
I think that @Marc 's post about Hindu squats & Hindu push ups, done for high reps (let's say 300 for each move) and low rest (just enough to stay around MAF pace) can prevent fat storage. When I am away from home, I also modify a bit my diet, just to be sure I do not modify too much my muscle mass / total mass ratio.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[damogari]

@305pelusa
I did not know there were a Spanish version of Lafay !

I found that there's even polish translation It's weird it wasn't translated to english.