Kettlebell Strength is the Foundation

[North Coast Miller]

This idea that CF needs to focus more on strength has been around a long time. The Max Effort Black Box programming came about in 2005 or earlier to address the lack of programming for strength and to de-emphasize all the metcons. This article just takes it further.

I suspect most CF gyms will continue to do whatever sells memberships, which as best I can tell is programming that gets folks sweaty and sore, which in turn lets them pat themselves on the back and receive attaboys and high fives from the rest of the gym goers.

IDK, CF membership is trending downward, new franchise openings have stalled IIRC.

The master command could easily effect a change by swapping out the WODs to include more strength oriented time. You could even have splits in the WOD to accommodate different goals.

But, most CF members I'd imagine are more about body comp and movement anyway, for them more strength work might not sit well.

In any event, if you start to move more toward individualizing for the client, you'll have to move away from the group fitness aspect, that would really be incompatible with the prevailing CF model whether you go more metcon or more strength.

 

[Tirofijo]

If it doesn't draw them in, they'll stay on the couch or at the box or treadmill. If it isn't smart they won't last. Take what people need and present it in a way they're drawn to?

Easier said than done, I would imagine.

I feel like you’d go broke if you opened a gym and had everyone do S&S followed by ROP (assuming they stayed long enough to reach Simple).

 

[Kozushi]

I think it was written to evolve a popular thing to be better. Over 400,000 people pay and participate in the formal Crossfit Open competition each year. What progress the health of the world would see if that many were training intently for TSC or SFG test?

That's a lot of people!

 

[miked]

Easier said than done, I would imagine.

I feel like you’d go broke if you opened a gym and had everyone do S&S followed by ROP (assuming they stayed long enough to reach Simple).

heh, yes. I try to do that but at least hide it in some other variant so that it doesn't feel too boring. My advanced students (i.e., the ones that get it) basically just do S&S every day plus a little barbell work.

 

[Kozushi]

Would someone please write down the principles of Crossfit here?

I remember discussing the system with a former judo student of mine and as I remember what she told me, the principles are the opposite of Strong First ones.

 

[ShawnM]

The irony with the article is that going back around 5 years ago there were two off shoots of CF that for the most part addressed the issue of strength first.

CROSSFIT FOOTBALL
Used a four day a week linear program of 3 x 5 on the press, squat, clean, deadlifts and bench press. Monday and Thursday was a press and the squat. Deadlifts I believe on Tuesday and Friday was cleans. Each day was followed by a WOD that for the most part made sense as it was designed for larger athletes. Founder was a retired pro football player.

CROSSFIT ENDURANCE
More of a WestSide Powerlifting based program using ME and DE training days, changing the main lift nearly each session. Not to give the conjugate method it’s just due, if I’m not being accurate describing it I apologize. After the main lifting was accomplished the athlete then moved on to an endurance WOD. The founder was a power lifter namer Brian McKenzie I believe and his program can be googled.

Not surprising that both of these systems were taken off the main page years ago as the systematic approach went against random variety. For what it’s worth CF Football was great and I was in the best shape and strong for the few years I did the work. The website now is a private site that is all paid content.

 

[Nate]

The irony with the article is that going back around 5 years ago there were two off shoots of CF that for the most part addressed the issue of strength first.

CROSSFIT FOOTBALL
Used a four day a week linear program of 3 x 5 on the press, squat, clean, deadlifts and bench press. Monday and Thursday was a press and the squat. Deadlifts I believe on Tuesday and Friday was cleans. Each day was followed by a WOD that for the most part made sense as it was designed for larger athletes. Founder was a retired pro football player.

CROSSFIT ENDURANCE
More of a WestSide Powerlifting based program using ME and DE training days, changing the main lift nearly each session. Not to give the conjugate method it’s just due, if I’m not being accurate describing it I apologize. After the main lifting was accomplished the athlete then moved on to an endurance WOD. The founder was a power lifter namer Brian McKenzie I believe and his program can be googled.

Not surprising that both of these systems were taken off the main page years ago as the systematic approach went against random variety. For what it’s worth CF Football was great and I was in the best shape and strong for the few years I did the work. The website now is a private site that is all paid content.

I participated in CF at local competition level (that's quite low but at 40yo, at least i had 2.4*bw deadlift & 43 - yes, kipping - pullups) in 2013-14, ran CFFB in 2015 And still have many CF friends. There is massive variety from coach to coach but i have known zero people who followed the cf.com programming. All had typical main lift strength portions (of SQ, DL, PR. CJ, etc) that copied conjugate, 531, texas method or other periodization and then followed with conditioning that typically rotated to address various energy systems. Some of the programs followed with focus on endurance or power (CFFB), or hypertrophy (one that looked like traditional 531 with planned variety in assistance work). Huge variety but not random (template with variation). I don't prescribe to the cf model but I've come to see how it could be done well and poorly. I'm sure there are people who follow the online website but I've never known any. Ive seen some that are KB dominant but also using bb, bw, mace etc. All are different. Steve F. made a great point, follow what you want as the expert you're following teaches it.

 

[Glen]

The irony with the article is that going back around 5 years ago there were two off shoots of CF that for the most part addressed the issue of strength first.

CROSSFIT FOOTBALL
Used a four day a week linear program of 3 x 5 on the press, squat, clean, deadlifts and bench press. Monday and Thursday was a press and the squat. Deadlifts I believe on Tuesday and Friday was cleans. Each day was followed by a WOD that for the most part made sense as it was designed for larger athletes. Founder was a retired pro football player.

CROSSFIT ENDURANCE
More of a WestSide Powerlifting based program using ME and DE training days, changing the main lift nearly each session. Not to give the conjugate method it’s just due, if I’m not being accurate describing it I apologize. After the main lifting was accomplished the athlete then moved on to an endurance WOD. The founder was a power lifter namer Brian McKenzie I believe and his program can be googled.

Not surprising that both of these systems were taken off the main page years ago as the systematic approach went against random variety. For what it’s worth CF Football was great and I was in the best shape and strong for the few years I did the work. The website now is a private site that is all paid content.

One of the crossfit boxes I attend occasionally follow the power athlete model (CF FOOTBALL by John Welbourn).

The other crossfit place I attend are very structured in their Olympic weightlifting with a more traditional programming and then add on a conditioning WOD after. Quite solid programming.

 

[ShawnM]

@Glen- My BJJ gym I attend has a big CF program and they ran CF Football four days a week for those that wanted to focus on strength over flopping around on a pull up bar. It wasn't shocking that those people were stronger and more muscular than the 100 burpees for time group. Ironically, the main stream CF'ers looked down on them in a way for not following the WOD and breaking away from the group. The lead instructor left and started his own gym and all the CF Football people left with him. Since then the CF program has dwindled down to next to nothing. From 5 classes a day down to two.

 

[Deleted member 5559]

Would someone please write down the principles of Crossfit here?

I believe they are:

Constantly varied,

I think this could be described similar to StrongFirst's use of waviness in theory. Many folks here also rotate through different goals and objectives over time. It is tough to put all those goals in a single program which is what CrossFit aims to do. The departure arises as one method would focus on avoiding muscle memory and the other trying to promote it.
​

functional movements

While I find this very subjective, the idea of moving the body around objects and moving objects around the body could be described similar to the use of SFB, SFL, and SFG. Where I think CrossFit got it right is they defined "fitness" with attributes and a hierarchy and then selected movements that best aligned to that. StrongFirst focuses on the development and expression of one attribute in multiple ways. CrossFit's addition of attributes such as flexibility, speed, accuracy, etc. guide the selection of movement focus such as weightlifting. StrongFirst focuses on the foundation of the pyramid, and leave the rest of that hierarchy and definition of fitness open to the individual.

​

at a high intensity

This is where I think there is the biggest departure. There is a difference between high intensity in relation to potential and high intensity in relation to fatigue. The latter is possible by anyone with any amount of rest and more conducive to groups and challenges. I think this is really good for some and really bad for others. It's good for those that don't know how to go hard and don't know their limits but it's bad for those that are able to truly go hard at their max. The original CrossFit template had more easy days than what it's become because people have demanded it. Many don't want to just come in and work on a skill; if they are paying for it, they want to be "worked out" and feel like they earned something.​

 

[North Coast Miller]

I believe they are:

Constantly varied,

I think this could be described similar to StrongFirst's use of waviness in theory. Many folks here also rotate through different goals and objectives over time. It is tough to put all those goals in a single program which is what CrossFit aims to do. The departure arises as one method would focus on avoiding muscle memory and the other trying to promote it.
​

functional movements

While I find this very subjective, the idea of moving the body around objects and moving objects around the body could be described similar to the use of SFB, SFL, and SFG. Where I think CrossFit got it right is they defined "fitness" with attributes and a hierarchy and then selected movements that best aligned to that. StrongFirst focuses on the development and expression of one attribute in multiple ways. CrossFit's addition of attributes such as flexibility, speed, accuracy, etc. guide the selection of movement focus such as weightlifting. StrongFirst focuses on the foundation of the pyramid, and leave the rest of that hierarchy and definition of fitness open to the individual.

​

at a high intensity

This is where I think there is the biggest departure. There is a difference between high intensity in relation to potential and high intensity in relation to fatigue. The latter is possible by anyone with any amount of rest and more conducive to groups and challenges. I think this is really good for some and really bad for others. It's good for those that don't know how to go hard and don't know their limits but it's bad for those that are able to truly go hard at their max. The original CrossFit template had more easy days than what it's become because people have demanded it. Many don't want to just come in and work on a skill; if they are paying for it, they want to be "worked out" and feel like they earned something.​

This a pretty good summation. It also helps to maybe flesh it out a bit with the nuts and bolts.

Foundational lifts:
1)dead lift, 2)sumo deadlift high pull, 3)clean, 4)squat, 5)front squat, 6)overhead squat, 7)press, 8)push press, 9)jerk

On paper it sounds a lot more reasonable than what most assume, but the WODs really seem arbitrary to me after reading through a number of them. Is important to note that the WOD is only one part of the class and should really only take about 20 minutes (?).

The inclusion of a metcon every session is something a masochist might appreciate, or folks who are more into body comp than they might like to admit.

Disclaimer: I've never trained CF. From nerdfitness.com

Most CrossFit gyms will split their classes into three or four sections:

1. Dynamic warm up – Not jogging on a treadmill for 5 minutes, but jumps, jumping jacks, jump rope, squats, push ups, lunges, pull ups. Functional movements, stretches, and mobility work that compliment the movements you’ll be doing in the workout that day.
   
2. Skill/Strength work – If it’s a strength day, then you’ll work on a pure strength movement (like squats or deadlifts). If it’s not a strength day, then you’ll work on a skill and try to improve, like one-legged squats or muscle ups.
3. WOD – the workout of the day. This is where you’ll be told to do a certain number of reps of particular exercises as quickly as possible, or you’ll have a set time limit to do as many of a certain exercise as possible.
4. Cool down and stretching – Either as a group, or you’re allowed to stretch out on your own. This would also be the time for people who pushed too hard to go puke in a trash can and stretch their stomach muscles.

 

[Deleted member 5559]

but the WODs really seem arbitrary to me after reading through a number of them.

I think this is very dependent on the coach. The theory of CrossFit is to have a WOD target an energy system using conducive work to rest ratios and overall duration. I think they start to fail when decoupling these two inappropriately. When StrongFirst decouples volume and intensity, it is still within a range conducive to the goal. When a bad coach decouples them, you end up with 100x deadlift @ 90% of 1RM...for time.

 

[Nate]

I think this is very dependent on the coach. The theory of CrossFit is to have a WOD target an energy system using conducive work to rest ratios and overall duration. I think they start to fail when decoupling these two inappropriately. When StrongFirst decouples volume and intensity, it is still within a range conducive to the goal. When a bad coach decouples them, you end up with 100x deadlift @ 90% of 1RM...for time.

...after a strength session of low bar back squats then a buy in of 50 good mornings.

 

[Kozushi]

A former judo student told me her crossfit class was based on the idea of starting at a low weight, exhausting yourself with it, then taking a break and adding more weight, rise and repeat several times. Maybe this isn't the proper method, I don't know.

 

[Oscar]

I remember I hated the randomness. One day I had painfully sore glutes, other day painfully sore quads. I thought: how is my body going to get used to this if I wont practice this exercise for the next 2 months?

 

[North Coast Miller]

I remember I hated the randomness. One day I had painfully sore glutes, other day painfully sore quads. I thought: how is my body going to get used to this if I want practice this exercise for the next 2 months?

I like variety, but I also like enough consistency that I can own what I'm doing before moving on to something else.

 

[Nate]

I think its important to take everything for what its worth. Crossfit is a bus ride from Unhealthier City to Healthier City. Its a relative trip. It gets most people better than they were & typically pretty successful in getting people into fitness that otherwise would be couch-potatoes. But it is a bus ride. Its not the fastest, may not be as nice or what you like as a car ride. Its GPP so it won't get you to a specific place in the Healthier City if you're wanting max strength or muscle. The generic group class does not have special seats to address your history of back pain or shoulder injury. I'm not convinced that entry level crossfit intends to do those things. There are strength biased programs and there are coaches who excel at movement fixes (eg Kelly Starrett) and modifying daily work for individual needs. The competative athletes periodize & address individual weaknesses. But I think crossfit (general) seeks to get people off the couch & give them a large variety of movement patterns, fat loss & conditioning. So they do what they see as what will get people off the couch & lunging, hinging, squatting, pushing, pulling, etc. I think the fat loss & conditioning is the prime focus for group class, in a format that draws people in at 5:00am who would otherwise skip.... Its not perfect, has wide variety of good & bad examples and is not the answer for every person. It is what it is.

Here's Greg Glassman's thoughts on his approach to the health epidemic.
Chronic Disease: “We Have the Answer” by CrossFit Inc.

 

[Kozushi]

I think its important to take everything for what its worth. Crossfit is a bus ride from Unhealthier City to Healthier City. Its a relative trip. It gets most people better than they were & typically pretty successful in getting people into fitness that otherwise would be couch-potatoes. But it is a bus ride. Its not the fastest, may not be as nice or what you like as a car ride. Its GPP so it won't get you to a specific place in the Healthier City if you're wanting max strength or muscle. The generic group class does not have special seats to address your history of back pain or shoulder injury. I'm not convinced that entry level crossfit intends to do those things. There are strength biased programs and there are coaches who excel at movement fixes (eg Kelly Starrett) and modifying daily work for individual needs. The competative athletes periodize & address individual weaknesses. But I think crossfit (general) seeks to get people off the couch & give them a large variety of movement patterns, fat loss & conditioning. So they do what they see as what will get people off the couch & lunging, hinging, squatting, pushing, pulling, etc. I think the fat loss & conditioning is the prime focus for group class, in a format that draws people in at 5:00am who would otherwise skip.... Its not perfect, has wide variety of good & bad examples and is not the answer for every person. It is what it is.

Here's Greg Glassman's thoughts on his approach to the health epidemic.
Chronic Disease: “We Have the Answer” by CrossFit Inc.

I think I'll stick with kettlebells, walking and judo, hehehe.