Nate
Level 6 Valued Member
Isn't there a similar concept in Beyond Bodybuilding?
BTW, big fan of both of these publications.
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BTW, big fan of both of these publications.
guardian7
Level 6 Valued Member
Great share. I have often thought that StrongFirst should write a short book like this on updated principles and give examples of how they apply to each modality, not just books concentrating on a type of exercise. I just took the SFB course and applied the lock down the lats principle "armpit strength" learned for the OAP to my bench this weekend which resulted in greater stability. There are great ideas scattered across so many books and some of the principles most notable the updated talk test in S&S 2 that it would be hard for someone coming to some of Pavel's older work and SF for the first time to figure it all out. It took me a long time and still working on it. I have been reading/rereading some older work and this is even more clear to me based on what I know now and this forum. Time for an update and overhaul. The principles-based instruction is one of the most appealing aspects of this organization but needs more conciseness, frameworks, and clarity. The user course books need updating as well. I have taken all the courses. There are some copyright issues in older works, but this should not be a problem with regards to the principles since Pavel clearly acknowledges the original sources in most of what he writes.
Examples in no particular order.
Irradiation
Tension and relaxation
Fresh and Frequent
Continuity of practice
Waving of load and volume
Workout as practice
Anti-glycolytic rest periods
Strength first
Programming (The podcast with Joe Rogan articulated some stuff from various sources well).
Deleted member 316
Guest
Two questions as thos relates to s&s.
1. Should we do tgu in the morning and swings at night as in most examples Geoff has strength training in the morning and swings or snatches in the evening.
2. Should we split the s&s warmup? I was thinking goblet squats with the swings and halos with the tgu?
1. Should we do tgu in the morning and swings at night as in most examples Geoff has strength training in the morning and swings or snatches in the evening.
2. Should we split the s&s warmup? I was thinking goblet squats with the swings and halos with the tgu?
DC3
Level 4 Valued Member
I've been using the Strength Shortcut style to do Easy Strength and S&S split between an early session and evening session. The split I've been using so far is something like this:
Morning Workout
Barbell Incline Bench Press: 5 x 2.
Pull Ups: 5 x 2.
Dead lift: 5 x 2.
Captain's Chair Straight Leg Lifts: 5 x 2.
Notes: 2 minutes rest between every set.
Evening Workout
Front Squat (racked): 5 x 2. Double 20 KG bells.
One-hand Swings: 10 x 4 @ 20 KG. 10 x 2 @ 24 KG and 10 x 4 @ 20 KG.
TGU: 2 each side @ 16 KG and 3 each side @ 20 KG.
So far I love it.
Morning Workout
Barbell Incline Bench Press: 5 x 2.
Pull Ups: 5 x 2.
Dead lift: 5 x 2.
Captain's Chair Straight Leg Lifts: 5 x 2.
Notes: 2 minutes rest between every set.
Evening Workout
Front Squat (racked): 5 x 2. Double 20 KG bells.
One-hand Swings: 10 x 4 @ 20 KG. 10 x 2 @ 24 KG and 10 x 4 @ 20 KG.
TGU: 2 each side @ 16 KG and 3 each side @ 20 KG.
So far I love it.
Oscar
Level 7 Valued Member
I have done it like this and it works. I prefer swings in the morning and TGU at night since ballistics keep me too excited before bed.
Van Der Merve
Level 2 Valued Member
In the morning strength is lower than in the afternoon or early evening, so I am not sure why Geoff chose to schedule it this way.
Schedules can and do vary, and my suspicion is that @Geoff Neupert would be the first person to tell you that what he has in "most examples" isn't something everyone must follow. There are reasons for different schedules, too many to list, really, but if I was to give a single guideline, it would be to do what has the highest skill component, is the most important to you, or both first in your day when you're the freshest. Things that require less precision execution and/or things that aren't as important can come later.
You might find the part of this ...
Kettlebell - FAQ: Comparing Kettlebell: Simple & Sinister and the ETK Program Minimum and ROP
The Program Minimum (hereafter PM) is a General Physical Preparedness program from Pavel's, "Enter The Kettlebell." The PM precedes the main program, the Rite of Passage (hereafter the ROP), in the book. The PM features kettlebell swings and getups. The ROP features the one-arm kettlebell...
www.strongfirst.com
... that discusses the order of exercises within a single session interesting.
Another consideration - some people who must split up high volumes of the same exercise leave several hours between sessions and with good results. The longer, the better, so in that case, a mid-morning session followed by a mid-to-late afternoon session. When you have enough time between your sessions, the order of things becomes less important.
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Hunter1313,
To answer your questions:
1. Whatever works best for your temperament and energy levels.
2. Use a warm-up that (a) physiologically warms up the muscles involved in the exercise and (b) neurologically primes the exercise. So your suggestions work.
Hope that helps.
Van Der Merve,
Great "question." And you are right.
(Not sure you know this, but the Soviets found TWO periods when there were rises in strength (by 10-30%) - 11am - 2pm and 6pm - 9pm. (see Managing The Training of Weightlifters, by Laputin & Oleshko)
However, there are several reasons I chose to set up the training split for that program that way:
(1) Research has shown that the lower spine's annuli is more hydrated in the morning, and so those structures are more prone to injury (tearing). Therefore heavy weight / high velocity training involving the lower back can be problematic and lead to injury.
(2) Testosterone, generally speaking (in men under 45) has been shown to be higher in the morning than during the afternoon. In weightlifting circles, there used to be (can't find the reference right now - think it's either in the Soviet literature or the old USA Weightlifting literature) the thought that lower skill, higher strength exercises like the squat, could be performed in the morning, to take advantage of the higher levels of T, and therefore make faster gains in strength and muscle. The explosive, more coordinated lifts - the snatch, clean & jerk, were saved for the afternoon once coordination and body temps (and therefore mobility & flexibility) increased.
(3) The GU/SW template (like S&S) is the bread & butter or entry point into the SF system. I have personally found it "easier" to do GU's in the morning than swings. (It has a "tonic" effect and loosens up and parts that may be stiff.) I like "power" workouts, so, to your point, and point #2, I like to save the power exercises to the evening when I can do more work and get more "bang for my buck."
(4) There has been some research that indicates that although the general trend is that one is stronger towards the latter half of the day, the body is highly adaptable and you will adapt to whatever time(s) of day you train.
(5) Ultimately, it comes down to the trainee's preference and mindset: Big Rocks/Frogs or Dessert first?
In other words: Do you find in order to stay consistent, you need to do the thing you hate first, then the "fun" stuff? Or do you need do the "sweet" stuff first and use that momentum in order to do the "sour?"
We're all different and our motivations for doing things vary.
At the end of the day, each individual needs to set up his or her program in such a way that he or she will do what's necessary to get the results he or she wants. So do whatever you need to do to stay consistent and keep making progress. Therefore, if someone wants to do ballistics first thing in the morning and grinds in the evening and that's what they "need to do" to stay engaged in the training process, so be it. As an aside, when I was younger I tended to be more dogmatic about such things, but now that I'm - well - not as young anymore, I'm more flexible in my approach.
Hope that helps.
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Deleted member 316
Guest
Out of curiosity Geoff, in the book you said you had varying degrees with the various fasting protocols. Could you elaborate on the pros and cons, and which one you think is the best way to fast? I know you used to have your own version.
Van Der Merve
Level 2 Valued Member
Thanks for the reply, Geoff. All points are valid. There is no perfect template and no perfect world, and we all have to make best of the circumstances.
The fact that strength is lower in the morning doesn't mean it's not trainable at that time of the day. Getting stronger in the morning will probably transfer to even more strength in the afternoon. It just will feel meh...
The fact that strength is lower in the morning doesn't mean it's not trainable at that time of the day. Getting stronger in the morning will probably transfer to even more strength in the afternoon. It just will feel meh...
John Locke
Level 4 Valued Member
I beg your pardon for the silly question, but how micro could be a micro session?
These days of smart working drives me standing up che chair and doing a single set of an exercise (chin up, dips, swing ecc) and then going back working, several times a day.
I know that something is better than nothing and this way I totalize between 1/2 and one hour or exercises, but I'm asking myself if it's too micro to add tangible benefit and instead it is better to create less too short sessions and group together some sets.
These days of smart working drives me standing up che chair and doing a single set of an exercise (chin up, dips, swing ecc) and then going back working, several times a day.
I know that something is better than nothing and this way I totalize between 1/2 and one hour or exercises, but I'm asking myself if it's too micro to add tangible benefit and instead it is better to create less too short sessions and group together some sets.
That'll work just fine, John. As long as you (a) get the work done and (b) get the corresponding results you're looking for.
Hope that helps.
Molson
Level 5 Valued Member
This is GTG already.
Deleted member 316
Guest
Here's a thought I came up with this morning. Many split their s&s sessions up via the strength shortcuts methodology. Now let's say you're rolling along doing the two sessions a day and then you end up working late and are forced to skip your evening session. Do you do your evening session the next morning or just carry on as if nothing was a miss?
Oscar
Level 7 Valued Member
If it doesn't happen often, no problem in missing a session. If it happens often, you might consider compensating the day after.
When doing S&S I found that I needed less frequency with TGU than with swings. Therefore, if I had to skip something, I would skip TGU. If you have a mini session you comply with every time, make that one the exercise you need the most. If there is a mini session you sometimes skip due to whatever reason, make that one the exercise you need less frequency.
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