Other/Mixed Strength training and stretching question

[Abdul-Rasheed]

Someone who is doing strength training three or four times a week, neglects to do the stretching (OS reset or RIS or SJ or S&S stretches or..) or don't do them enough. What risks is the person likely going to run into? What mistake is the person doing?

 

[Steve Freides]

Someone who is doing strength training three or four times a week, neglects to do the stretching (OS reset or RIS or SJ or S&S stretches or..) or don't do them enough. What risks is the person likely going to run into? What mistake is the person doing?

IMHO, none. There is no inherent risk, and each person needs to figure out how to manage their own body, which parts and systems recuperate on their own and which need a little help. Lifestyle matters, e.g., I needed zero shoulder mobility work when I did easy lap swimming 3x/week, but I need it now that I press and deadlift and don't swim. Age matters, genetics matter, everything matters.

For me, the short answer is:

Be alert for early signs of things not working as they should.
Do what makes you feel and function better.
Don't bother with what you don't need.

If one' lifestyle allows you the luxury of preventative maintenance of things that don't need it, no harm done, but I am far too busy to spend my exercise time with things that don't yield tangible results, and maximum results for the time spent.

JMO, YMMV.

-S-

 

[Abdul-Rasheed]

Thanks @Steve Freides for that insight.

Will it (i.e. strength training with no stretching) lead to muscle being too tight? Stretching, to counter balance the strength aspect, to increase the elasticity of the muscle tissues.

What is the difference beween mobility work (e.g. goblet squat?) and stretching (e.g. QL straddle stretch?)...generally speaking? I am have trouble figuring out the meaning of some of the terminology (e.g. of another is conditioning').

 

[Steve Freides]

@Abdul Rasheed, at the end of the day, successful athletes - one could expand this beyond athletics - are people who know themselves: their strengths and how and when to use or conserve them, and their weaknesses and how to strengthen them.

Will strength training lead to muscles being too tight? Sometimes, yes, sometimes, no, and often it depends on the person - the same exercise may create a need for stretching in one person but not another.

I recall a conversation with Pavel a number of years ago when, for reasons I don't remember, we were discussing how to sum up StrongFirst principles in a single phrase or sentence. I believe is was Pavel who suggested "complete mastery of muscle tension."

Pavel has observed that most sedentary Westerners live in the middle of a continuum with total muscle tension on one side and total muscle relaxation on the other. The problem is that, while they are "balanced," they are only balanced because their lack of skill prevents them from away of the middle. A life well-lived should include the ability to move to both ends of the muscle tension continuum, or at least not to be stuck in the middle.

In our Flexible Steel workshops, we talk about using your strength to improve your flexibility. Pavel's books, which are the basis for and background against which Flexible Steel was created, discuss this as well. Be Strong _First_, and with your strength, strive to improve your flexibility. A weak muscle doesn't want to relax but a strong one is more willing. One of the "light bulb" moments in my training was realizing my splits improved when I started training pistols.

In my mind, stretching does not counterbalance strength; stretching is a demonstration of one aspect of the mastery of muscle tension; the primary aspect of the mastery of muscle tension is strength. Only a fool wants to be flexible and not strong - studies have shown these people are at higher risk than those who are less flexible. Strive to be able to demonstrate both tension and relaxation throughout a complete range of motion. Maintain the range of motion through which you are able to demonstrate flexibility in at least the same neighborhood as that in which you can demonstrate strength.

To address another of your questions, the difference between mobility work and stretching is that in the former, we are using a range of motion we already have, making sure we don't lose it, making sure our joints are well lubricated, and making sure our movement patterns are sound; in the latter, we are attempting to increase our range of motion.

If you are having trouble understanding the meaning of the word "conditioning," you are not alone. I wouldn't be too concerned. One "conditions" one's self to an activity by performing it, and you will become conditioned to your training. "Endurance" is a word often confused with "conditioning" - far be it from me to try to unravel that one, except to say that I wish to be conditioned to the activities of my choosing; becoming so conditioned happens through my body's adaptations as I perform those activities repeatedly over time. I don't want to engage in activities that I have to "endure" except as my life might require such endurance. If you ask me, sitting on an airplane is an endurance activity.

-S-

 

[Abdul-Rasheed]

@Steve Freides thanks a lot for taking time, and brilliantly explaining it. Some of the quotes that really made sense to me are...

Will strength training lead to muscles being too tight? Sometimes, yes, sometimes, no, and often it depends on the person - the same exercise may create a need for stretching in one person but not another.

Be Strong _First_, and with your strength, strive to improve your flexibility. A weak muscle doesn't want to relax but a strong one is more willing.

stretching is a demonstration of one aspect of the mastery of muscle tension; the primary aspect of the mastery of muscle tension is strength.

Only a fool wants to be flexible and not strong

Strive to be able to demonstrate both tension and relaxation throughout a complete range of motion

And this from the second question.

the difference between mobility work and stretching is that in the former, we are using a range of motion we already have, making sure we don't lose it, making sure our joints are well lubricated, and making sure our movement patterns are sound; in the latter, we are attempting to increase our range of motion

As for conditioning..yeah not worried about it. I am happy simply go about with my weekly routine I think I understand that too now, though. Thanks again!

 

[wespom9]

@Steve Freides that is quite a summation about this topic. Loved your thought about how lack of skill doesn't allow individuals to stray from the middle. Goes back to that yin/yang concept so heavily ingrained in the principles - by becoming stronger we can learn to relax as well.

About your thought on the fool who wants to be flexible but not strong - what a fantastic point. I have also seen studies that show that a major predictor of potential injury is a greater than normal difference between active and passive ROM; aka if you can pull your leg up really high but can only do half of that range without assistance, that is an issue. And what does strength get you? stronger muscles that will be more equipped to actively engage and move the joints. The more you can yin, the more you can yang.

 

[Steve Freides]

@wespom9, credit is due to Pavel for the continuum of muscle tension as well - I have just edited my post to reflect that fact.

I have also seen studies that show that a major predictor of potential injury is a greater than normal difference between active and passive ROM

Yes, that's exactly my point.

A good example, I think, is how I do a hamstring and lower back stretch - I put my leg up on something like a porch railing or a desk or counter and then lean into that. But I don't pick my leg up to get it there, and I make sure that I put my leg only as high as I can raise it without resorting to contortions before I stretch.

The more you can yin, the more you can yang.

Yes, and it works in both directions, but I have found it easier to relax from a position of strength than to try to build strength from a relaxed position - but I do both and the latter is, in fact, a good form of strength training in its own way.

-S-