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Strength training for kayak racing. Advice please

Davidlbn

Level 5 Valued Member
Looking for some advice on how best to train for my sport of surfski (ocean kayak) racing.

I typically paddle 3-4 times a week. One longish paddle of 1.5 to 2 hours, 1 or 2 easy paddles of about 70 minutes and 1 race (sometimes weekly, sometimes every second week), also about 70 minutes.

I’m 60 now and its hard work trying to stay competitive. I try and do some sort of strength training 2 to 3 times a week. Currently I’m doing a week 1: ABA, week 2: BAB program (of my own design) where workout A is 25 minutes of DFSQ, DMP and pullups on a DFW rep scheme. Workout B is A+A Snatches of 18, 24 or 30 minutes.

I’m sometimes a bit flat in the races. I’ve tried a pure strength program which worked ok but I never had the power/speed/endurance to contest the end sprint. I then changed to Q&D swings and pushups. That worked very well and I upped my game, but my I think the highly explosive nature of it caused me couple of injuries (shoulder and elbow).

A typical Surfski race starts with a hard sprint as the main contenders try and burn off the slower paddlers. There is a fair slipstream effect sitting on another kayaks wake, so if you’re strong enough to break that tow, you will normally stay ahead for the rest of the race. Once the front pack has sorted itself out things settle down a bit and the next hour involves rotating the pulling effort among the pack, mostly at lactate threshold pace, with frequent hard surges as someone tries to break away. And then, if you’re still in contention, there’s the end sprint of a few hundred meters. Almost like a cycle race, except cyclists don’t start as hard.

Power and endurance are obviously key for this type of event, as well as the ability to recover from frequent very hard efforts. Strength without excess mass is important as power to weight is a factor in accelerating the kayak.

Questions:

Note: I am cautious about Q&D snatches, given my experience with injuries from this protocol. I have tried Kettlebells Strongfirst program with swings and getups and although I am strong enough to do decent TGUs, they aggravate an old injury that no physio or biokineticist has been able to permanently resolve. I didn’t go for the C&J option as I don’t have the technique down properly. I guess I could learn

Is A+A a good choice for this type of training? If not, what would work better?.

If so, would doing only A+A snatches (without additional strength sessions) work better during race season, typically 8 to 12 weeks?

How many workouts should I do per week?

All replies appreciated. Thanks
 
fantastic:) I have no advice for you. just that kayak and surfski is my hobby of choice and I don't get opportunities living in an inland metropolis. I was in the Drakensburg mountains this weekend and spent hours kayaking on, and running around the resorts dam and mountains :)

I lived in East London (RSA) for a few years WAAAAY BACK when I was unfit,fat, and before my Kung Fu training, this was a few weeks before Y2K. I bought a surfski and was out in the ocean 2or3 times a week. I was a very poor surfer, but I loved it! still have the faded and cracked surfski as a 'garden ornament' now.

WTH KB swing effects: comparing my kayaking and trail running to previous years in the same resort and same paths =
- my body was facing foward when running down the tricky slopes. I previously tilted one side forward e.g. leading with my right or left hip. this time, I was mostly square with the pathways, and my toes mostly pointed foward.
- my abs and sides just went on and on and on non-stop when kayaking. I only stopped on both sessions because a) day 1: the kayak hut closed and pulled me out of the water, and b) day 2: we had to check-out so I only had a limited time
I'm REALLY tired at the moment :)
 
I didn’t go for the C&J option as I don’t have the technique down properly. I guess I could learn
For me, the technique of long cycle clean and jerk was easier to get down than snatches.

I don’t have a whole lot of experience in your chosen sport although it sounds fun. Is the main force driver a pulling motion? If so perhaps some A+A on a pulling exercise as part of your toolbox. You can do A+A pull-ups.

Also seems that core and rotational strength would be important.
In my mind C&J, snatches, and one handed swings all seem like they would be beneficial to you.

Also, I seem to remember years ago reading some research about cross training that suggested training other muscles (than the primary movers of the sport) to process lactic acid was beneficial because perhaps the prime movers could offload lactic acid to these other muscles during competition, but I’d have to verify that if I can.
How many workouts should I do per week?
This is probably idiosyncratic to your personal context. What can you fit in your schedule? What can you recover from? What leaves you feeling stronger?
 
I’ve been fortunate enough (back in the day…) to have done a fair bit of kayaking; open water, white water, and kayak surfing. Never trained of course… just did. That being said your post caught my imagination and got me thinking about it.

What about some sort of Iron Cardio protocol? I think that would fit the ticket very nicely….
 
For me, the technique of long cycle clean and jerk was easier to get down than snatches.

I don’t have a whole lot of experience in your chosen sport although it sounds fun. Is the main force driver a pulling motion? If so perhaps some A+A on a pulling exercise as part of your toolbox. You can do A+A pull-ups.

Also seems that core and rotational strength would be important.
In my mind C&J, snatches, and one handed swings all seem like they would be beneficial to you.

Also, I seem to remember years ago reading some research about cross training that suggested training other muscles (than the primary movers of the sport) to process lactic acid was beneficial because perhaps the prime movers could offload lactic acid to these other muscles during competition, but I’d have to verify that if I can.

This is probably idiosyncratic to your personal context. What can you fit in your schedule? What can you recover from? What leaves you feeling stronger?
Thank you. Although the main force driver is a pulling motion, the pull is initiated by rotation of the hips and leg drive, through the core to the upper body. I do pullups but they're not my focus.
There was a world class paddler who set a 24 hour world record for pullups. Link to the story CAINE ECKSTEIN: Pull Up or Go Home
One arm swings vs pullups? I'd probably need to do the swings with getups, whereas maybe snatches or C&J are a one stop shop.
 
I’ve been fortunate enough (back in the day…) to have done a fair bit of kayaking; open water, white water, and kayak surfing. Never trained of course… just did. That being said your post caught my imagination and got me thinking about it.

What about some sort of Iron Cardio protocol? I think that would fit the ticket very nicely….
I hadn't considered Iron Cardio because I thought it more of an aerobic strength program rather than a power and endurance program.
It is rather difficult to determine what is best fro my particular needs between A+A snatches, Kettlebells Strongfirst C&J, Q&D and Iron Cardio.
 
I think I would recommend A+A 1H swings. 1H swings build a lot of shoulder endurance, IMO, without overworking them as snatches or jerks can at high volume. And A+A builds both endurance and the ability to recover from hard efforts.

I've been a recreational kayak and SUP paddler for 18 years and did a few races 10 or 12 years ago. Mostly, like anything else. specificity rules. Time paddling is the best training -- 80% long slow/easy distance (though MAF HR is too high for paddling -- I would usually go for about 110, when my MAF HR for running was 130), and 20% interval training and power training for speed.

workout A is 25 minutes of DFSQ, DMP and pullups on a DFW rep scheme. Workout B is A+A Snatches of 18, 24 or 30 minutes.
This sounds good to me, except that I would do 1H swings for workout B and see if you can increase the volume from what you describe there, sometimes pushing up to an hour or even more. Repeats every 75 seconds or so with each repeat being a heavy set of 5 swings. For me now that would be 24 kg, but I was doing 32 kg back in 2016.
 
1H swings build a lot of shoulder endurance,
I never though that. Worth a try.
MAF HR is too high for paddling
Interestingly, I am able to achieve a higher max HR when paddling than in any other sport. 175. So MAF of 120 is pretty easy, although I often paddle slower.
see if you can increase the volume
I have been gradually building up the A+A snatch volume with a target of 40 min, doing 5 reps EMOM @24kg.
30 min is currently comfortable. I will set my target higher. With swings.
Thank you
 
Repeats every 75 seconds or so with each repeat being a heavy set of 5 swings
If you don't mind...
I don't ever measure HR when doing strength training but today I strapped one on.
I started swinging a 32 every 75 seconds.
My HR maxed at about 105 after 22 sets.
I was feeling pretty comfortable so switched to a 36.
Got the HR up to about 114 for another 8 sets at which point my form started breaking down so I stopped.
So my strength, not cardio is my limiting factor.
Which is the right load? More sets with 32 or less with 36 and build up?
 
Lots of good stuff here… I could also see using the high pull in the mix. It can be a great method to get the benefits of a snatch while being a bit easier on the body.

I am hoping to do some canoe/kayak racing in the coming year (too busy this year). I look forward to hearing more about your progress.
 
...
I started swinging a 32 every 75 seconds.
My HR maxed at about 105 after 22 sets...
I train extensively with an HR monitor. these are some good heart readings as it seems that your Heart recovers quickly and well after each exertion. my questions:
1. how many reps per set?
2. what is your effort for each rep?

A low effort will equate to lower heart rate and quicker recovery. My suggestion is to find where your HR equates more-or-less to your talk-test or your Maffetone HR, and gradually push each set towards that point. push = more reps or more effort or heavier weight in each set...as you said, ensuring your form is good.

Your 114 HR is approximate to the statistical calculation of Maffetone for your age (180-60 -+ 10 = 114 beats per minute fits within the range). Push yourself to this HR again and see how it fits with the talk-test for your individual preference and adjust accordingly.

Many threads in this forum explore maffetone and talk-tests.
 
I train extensively with an HR monitor. these are some good heart readings as it seems that your Heart recovers quickly and well after each exertion. my questions:
1. how many reps per set?
2. what is your effort for each rep?

A low effort will equate to lower heart rate and quicker recovery. My suggestion is to find where your HR equates more-or-less to your talk-test or your Maffetone HR, and gradually push each set towards that point. push = more reps or more effort or heavier weight in each set...as you said, ensuring your form is good.

Your 114 HR is approximate to the statistical calculation of Maffetone for your age (180-60 -+ 10 = 114 beats per minute fits within the range). Push yourself to this HR again and see how it fits with the talk-test for your individual preference and adjust accordingly.

Many threads in this forum explore maffetone and talk-tests.
Thanks. I am pretty fit cardio-wise. I have used MAF HR extensively in the past for multi-day canoe racing and Ironman training but I have never applied it to strength training. As per Anna's advice I did 5 reps per set. I'm not trying for a max effort sprint like in Q&D, rather a more moderate effort. But I haven't done swings for a while so this should improve.
Should the recovery for A+A be time-based or HR based? I recovered to about 90 BPM with 75 second intervals.
 
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Should the recovery for A+A be time-based or HR based? I recovered to about 90 BPM with 75 second intervals.

the experts here will answer better. My own approach is HR Based. My own target is to let my HR drop to a desired bpm before starting each set. my HR approaches and exceeds my Maffetone over the course of my 10x10 swings but I generally pass the talk-test until maybe the final 2or3 sets.

Hard days = I just go time based EMOM. I wear my HR monitor, but do not track it during the session. These EMOM's are 5-8 reps per set with my heaviest 24kg KB.
Medium days = I start a new set when my HR drops to about 125bpm. S&S progression switching between 24kg (70 reps total) + 16kg (30 reps total)
easy days = I start a new set when my HR drops to about 110bpm. S&S switching between 24kg + 16kg (mostly 16kg and some high effort 12kg)
at 49yrs, my maffetone is about 131+_10bpm. and I pass the talk test at about 138. even singing a few lines.

My two pennies… save your HRM and talk of MAF, or AeT, for locomotive endurance activities…
sorry, I wholly and respectively disagree ;) and agree that your method works for you and many others, just not for me. The HRMonitor can be a crutch, especially to new users, but there is something great about having 10+ years of personal statistics available. I definitely focused too much on the watch during training in my early years, to the point of having neck and shoulder pain from constantly looking at my watch while running (before smart-phone days).
I eventually moved my attention towards reviewing the data and planning my training cycles. This is the value I derive from my HRM: understanding objectively what my Heart is doing and using that information to plan the next 7-10 days efforts. and regular but infrequent scans of my watch/app during the practice to ensure that I stay within my planned HR Zones.

what is AeT?
 
Interestingly, I am able to achieve a higher max HR when paddling than in any other sport. 175. So MAF of 120 is pretty easy, although I often paddle slower.

Hey Anna… I’m curious why you say this?

That is interesting! I guess what I should have said is use a MAF HR that is specific to you and also to the activity you're doing. For me, that means a much lower HR for paddling. I would guess it's true for most people, but apparently not for you, which makes sense for someone with a lot of paddling history. I would bet that upper body endurance is something that most people haven't really built. Also I think I've heard that women tend to have a different percentage of slow twitch fiber especially in the upper body. All just different variables that may play a part in how much aerobic work can be done and how a systemic metric like HR might reflect that.

Perhaps a good metric for staying aerobic while paddling (as I find it is for cycling and running) is to stay away from any burning sensation in the working muscles. But again, that might not work for everyone.

Anyway, sounds like you know where your target is for your LSD/LED/MAF type paddling sessions.

If you don't mind...
I don't ever measure HR when doing strength training but today I strapped one on.
I started swinging a 32 every 75 seconds.
My HR maxed at about 105 after 22 sets.
I was feeling pretty comfortable so switched to a 36.
Got the HR up to about 114 for another 8 sets at which point my form started breaking down so I stopped.
So my strength, not cardio is my limiting factor.
Which is the right load? More sets with 32 or less with 36 and build up?

My two pennies… save your HRM and talk of MAF, or AeT, for locomotive endurance activities…

I agree with @offwidth, to a point. I wouldn't use HR to determine your load. But once you have determined your load, HR can be useful to guide your session.

The right load is one where you can give a really hard effort for a powerful set of 5, it requires some recovery, but you are mostly recovered (not totally, but close) by the time you go to do the next set/repeat.

Thanks. I am pretty fit cardio-wise. I have used MAF HR extensively in the past for multi-day canoe racing and Ironman training but I have never applied it to strength training. As per Anna's advice I did 5 reps per set. I'm not trying for a max effort sprint like in Q&D, rather a more moderate effort. But I haven't done swings for a while so this should improve.
Should the recovery for A+A be time-based or HR based? I recovered to about 90 BPM with 75 second intervals.

Once you have the right load, you can use either time or HR to guide your recovery between sets/repeats. I would suggest 75 second intervals for what you are doing and just see what the resulting HR graph looks like, if you're using a device that gives you that. Stay consistent with that for a while, and you can start to read and understand some things about it. Then maybe apply some of its lessons within the session, to let HR be your guide.
 
That is interesting! I guess what I should have said is use a MAF HR that is specific to you and also to the activity you're doing. For me, that means a much lower HR for paddling. I would guess it's true for most people, but apparently not for you, which makes sense for someone with a lot of paddling history. I would bet that upper body endurance is something that most people haven't really built. Also I think I've heard that women tend to have a different percentage of slow twitch fiber especially in the upper body. All just different variables that may play a part in how much aerobic work can be done and how a systemic metric like HR might reflect that.

Perhaps a good metric for staying aerobic while paddling (as I find it is for cycling and running) is to stay away from any burning sensation in the working muscles. But again, that might not work for everyone.

Anyway, sounds like you know where your target is for your LSD/LED/MAF type paddling sessions.





I agree with @offwidth, to a point. I wouldn't use HR to determine your load. But once you have determined your load, HR can be useful to guide your session.

The right load is one where you can give a really hard effort for a powerful set of 5, it requires some recovery, but you are mostly recovered (not totally, but close) by the time you go to do the next set/repeat.



Once you have the right load, you can use either time or HR to guide your recovery between sets/repeats. I would suggest 75 second intervals for what you are doing and just see what the resulting HR graph looks like, if you're using a device that gives you that. Stay consistent with that for a while, and you can start to read and understand some things about it. Then maybe apply some of its lessons within the session, to let HR be your guide.
Casual flat water paddling I agree that sub-AeT is no doubt just fine, and I suspect that’s what I would be in much of the time. Similar to ZR-Z1 in running or cycling. But… if you’ve ever spent any time in grade 4+ whitewater or logged a lot of hours paddling out in heavy surf, then good luck with staying at Aet…. :cool:
 
Casual flat water paddling I agree that sub-AeT is no doubt just fine, and I suspect that’s what I would be in much of the time. Similar to ZR-Z1 in running or cycling. But… if you’ve ever spent any time in grade 4+ whitewater or logged a lot of hours paddling out in heavy surf, then good luck with staying at Aet…. :cool:
Yep. I haven't done much whitewater but flying downwind in 50 km/h winds and 3 metre swell and all HR bets are off!
 
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