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Old Forum Stretching question for Pavel

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Jon_Frost

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Hello Pavel!  Happy New Year.  I am re-affirming my flexibility goal this year, so I pulled out my copy of RIS and have a question or two...1) can I do iso stretching for front and side splits on different days? Side and roadkill split on M-W-F and front on T-th?  Or is it better to do them all in the same session with a day or two or rest in between?  And are their other specific stretches you would recommend to assist in split training (especially for side/roadkill split)?  Are there any hip or low back stretches, etc. that will help?

As always, thanks for your time.  I hope 2015 is a great year for you and yours and I look forward to whatever your next publication is:)

 

Jon
 
I am not Pavel but I will chime in, Jon, if you don't mind. :)

Schedule - I would put all the hard stuff together, and I wouldn't do it more than 3x/week.  In fact, twice a week or even three times in two weeks can work.  Twice a week was what I used to do.   Keeping in mind that it's tough to serve multiple masters, I recommend picking a favorite split and making that your focus, e.g., I would work split switches, which are MA splits, leading up to my side split work, treating the MA splits as warmups to the main event of the side split.

It doesn't _have_ to work that way, in theory, but in practice, at least for me,  a single main focus and no more than twice a week was what yielded the best results for me.

The Cossack stretch, and the sequence of stretches (shown in SuperJoints, I think, but maybe RIS or maybe both) is absolutely golden and underused, IMHO.   If you learn how to do the Cossack properly - I always try to sneak this in when I'm teaching at an SFG, btw - you will be a long way towards your goal of side splits.

I highly recommend Jon Engum's "Flexible Steel" workshops - I took one a month or two ago and learned all sorts of cool stuff I didn't know before.

-S-
 
Thanks Steve!  So do you feel the side and front split are mutually exclusive?  In other words, can I focus only on the seated groin stretch, then the road kill split without needing to do front splits?  And I like the idea of your scheduling, I think I try to hard to maintain consistency at the expense of progress.

 

 
 
Jon, welcome back!

Steve has given an excellent answer.

The only thing I would add is a piriformis stretch.  And possibly isometric horse stance.

 
 
Pavel, thank you, sir.

Jon, a few points in response to your questions.

I would like to second the idea of a piriformis stretch - kettlebell windmill is great, 90/90 stretch is also excellent, IMHO.

Front splits are not a thing I work on much.  My knees won't take the pressure - this can be worked around - and my back doesn't like them and that's more difficult to work around.  But if you looked at my various postures throughout the cossack sequence, you'd see that I'm not far from a front split if I decided to work on it and my back cooperated.  In this way, I am evidence that one needn't do front splits in order to achieve other splits, but if you can do them all, I can't see any reason not to do them all - they're all worthwhile goals and good postures to be able to get into.

As to scheduling, I think it makes sense to think of a real focused session of splits work like a heavy strength training session.  The intensity level can be quite high so frequency should be much like it would be for a powerlifter who does heavy squats and/or deadlifts only once or twice a week.

-S-
 
Steve, Pavel, thank you for your tips. One of my aims for 2015 is back bridge, front split, and side split.

First two improve very fast - I already have reasonably good back bridge and front split, side split is more difficult, but I can see the improvement as well (no hurry).

I treat my stretching as strength practice  - easy, medium, hard, so I do it 3 times  a week.

I follow the advice from one of the Pavel's Hardstyle magazine articles: I start with mobility squats and Cossacks (the excellent variation from Superjoints that Steve mentioned), after that kneeling hip flexor stretch and tactical frog (love those two), and after that seated groin stretch (not ready for roadkill split yet), split switch (one of the best drills!), and waiting out the tension in seated groin stretch.

Pavel - isometric horse stance, the way Thomas Kurz teaches the progression to split? I have tried it, and I actually like it. It is not easy, but my ankles/knees can take it with no problem at all (probably because I have done A LOT of horse stance training in my martial arts training).

Any other tips for front splits, side splits and back bridges are appreciated!
 
Pavel, as for the horse stance, what Kurz recommends is very good.  Here is what I like: start with your back against the wall, feet away from the wall somewhat, and a double shoulder width stance, then slide down while actively pulling the hips out of the sockets.  Then pry.  Raise your arms overhead to finish the set; this will make you sink deeper.

On your second set use weight—and be ready to drop it if necessary.  Pry and sink again.

On the third set go wider and no weight.

Then use your judgment.

It is of essence to grip the deck with the big toes.
 
Pavel, is the above the same as the wide sumo squat you demo in the dvd stretch seminar? I tried it a couple of weeks ago and found that it was something I've needed to do for a long time, seemed to unlock a lot of deep tension. It is shown facing the wall with feet at 45, knees tracking the toes. I looked at a couple of horse stances (never heard of it described that way) and it seems some do it with feet straight with valgus looking knees. Doesn't seem right, maybe it is if the knees are up to it and there is enough hip mobility and maybe it is taught that way for martial artists, I don't know. As I've add great benefit from doing it as shown by yourself, is there a difference with your back to the wall? Appreciate your suggestions, thank you again.
 
Alistair, no; the feet are pointing straight forward, the knees slide forward, and the spine stays vertical.  Not needed for lifters; great for martial artists
 
Alistair, keeping your back against the wall (some of the time) teaches to get vertical and allows one to relax into the stretch.
 
Jon & all, there must be individual differences.  Side splits came somewhat easy for me, and I even went past 180 for a few years.  While my hip flexors and hamstring flexibility is just adequate.  I think Jason Ginsberg pointed out that flexibility is extremely specific.

And, duh,  do full squats.  I would guess that if you have a really nice looking rock-bottom goblet, you are pretty close to side splits.
 
Thank you sir!

I have tried it yesterday, and sank deeper - similar feeling like when doing the curl in the Goblet Squat, kind of getting under the raising arms while simultaneously lengthening the spine and pulling the hips out of the sockets. The chest opened, pelvis tilted, lower back arched (the butt and upper back still touched the wall), I guess that is alright because of the femur/hips architecture.

Tip: Because of lack of beaches and sand, I do some of my splits and split switches on the mattress. No pressure on the knees or heels, helps to relax tremendously (because of sinking into the mattress a bit),  and "pushing the walls apart" still works great.

And btw. "spreading the pockets" in conventional deadlift (although really subtle) feels much better.

 
 
I am going to have to work on the horse stance stretch as mentioned by Pavel, so it is to be done by prying as an addition to isometrics, but not done contract-relax style?  Am I understanding correctly?
 
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