Other/Mixed Strong Grip + Powerful Hips = Athletic Base

[DuncanGB]

As a former wrestler and someone who has engaged in various forms of training from bodyweight training, weight training, rock climbing and other sports and I am led to believe if someone has a strong grip and powerful hips, they have an advantage in pretty much every sport they go into minus something like distance swimming in which any significant muscle mass in general can be a disadvantage. This could be another reason why the KB swing is such an effective tool.

Anyone thoughts on this?

I'm in with you on your hip-'n'-grip thesis up to a point

Supporting evidence:



The ball-carrier's powerful hips are obvious; less evident, however, is the vice-like grip with which he ensures ball-retention under extreme pressure - even when switching hands in heavy traffic and/or at full-flight: notice how many defenders - elite athletes themselves - target the ball or ball-carrying arm but to no avail

I would argue, however, that strong grip and powerful hips are natural concomitants of being athletic rather than causative or just constitutive factors. Simply put, in the terms of this thread's title:
Athletic Base = Strong Grip + Powerful Hips x X-Factors

The athletic body is one piece and more than the sum of its parts whenever its parts are working together in athletic expression

 

[AndyMcL]

Overall I agree with the thesis! I just spent a few minutes looking for it, but couldn't find it. A long time ago I read a piece by Joe DeFranco where he said that when bringing athletes in the three things he focused on where grip, hips, and feet. Which makes a ton of sense to me. As others have said, if you have a strong upper body but grip strength is the limiting factor you won't be able to transfer that strength into something "functional". Grip strength is often very low hanging fruit for improvement.

My current thinking
-Hips generate power
-Core can connect that power to upper body
-Hands and feet apply power

 

[DuncanGB]

My current thinking
-Hips generate power
-Core can connect that power to upper body
-Hands and feet apply power

My experience
- hips generate power
- core transmits that power throughout upper and lower body
- shoulder-elbow-wrist-hand and knee-ankle-foot articulate this power accordingly

 

[xagunos]

I'm in with you on your hip-'n'-grip thesis up to a point

Supporting evidence:



The ball-carrier's powerful hips are obvious; less evident, however, is the vice-like grip with which he ensures ball-retention under extreme pressure - even when switching hands in heavy traffic and/or at full-flight: notice how many defenders - elite athletes themselves - target the ball or ball-carrying arm but to no avail

I would argue, however, that strong grip and powerful hips are natural concomitants of being athletic rather than causative or just constitutive factors. Simply put, in the terms of this thread's title:
Athletic Base = Strong Grip + Powerful Hips x X-Factors

The athletic body is one piece and more than the sum of its parts whenever its parts are working together in athletic expression

Agreed!

 

[xagunos]

Overall I agree with the thesis! I just spent a few minutes looking for it, but couldn't find it. A long time ago I read a piece by Joe DeFranco where he said that when bringing athletes in the three things he focused on where grip, hips, and feet. Which makes a ton of sense to me. As others have said, if you have a strong upper body but grip strength is the limiting factor you won't be able to transfer that strength into something "functional". Grip strength is often very low hanging fruit for improvement.

My current thinking
-Hips generate power
-Core can connect that power to upper body
-Hands and feet apply power

I know Ido Portal also emphasizes strengthening the "ends of the chain" in reference to the hands, feet and torso.

Also I have never met anyone with strong hands with weak arms but I have met plenty with big, strong arms and soft, weak hands.

Similar probably applies with the feet. I know Ben Patrick from ATG believes that the majority of people who get a lower body injury is not because they have weak hips but because they have weak knees or weak ankles/feet relative to the strength of their hips.

 

[offwidth]

I know Ido Portal also emphasizes strengthening the "ends of the chain" in reference to the hands, feet and torso.

Also I have never met anyone with strong hands with weak arms but I have met plenty with big, strong arms and soft, weak hands.

Similar probably applies with the feet. I know Ben Patrick from ATG believes that the majority of people who get a lower body injury is not because they have weak hips but because they have weak knees or weak ankles/feet relative to the strength of their hips.

Years and years ago I had a fencing coach who I gather at one point in time had been on the Italian Olympic team. He used to always talk about a grip of steel on a rubber arm...

 

[xagunos]

Years and years ago I had a fencing coach who I gather at one point in time had been on the Italian Olympic team. He used to always talk about a grip of steel on a rubber arm...

Same applies to a boxer. Cinderblock fist on an elastic rubber arm.

 

[AndyMcL]

Most sports when you think about it; mixing tension and relaxation.

 

[WhatWouldHulkDo]

I could see where strong hips + grip might be a good "screen" to look for natural ability. That is to say, if you were given two untrained people and were asked to pick one to train as an athlete, the one with the natural grip & hip power might be your best bet.

That said, I think agility - by which I mean ability to change directions quickly without getting hurt - is key to most athletic pursuits.

 

[Don Fairbanks]

Most sports when you think about it; mixing tension and relaxation.

Agreed. Calmness under stress as well. The body moves better,faster.

 

[watchnerd]

As a former wrestler and someone who has engaged in various forms of training from bodyweight training, weight training, rock climbing and other sports and I am led to believe if someone has a strong grip and powerful hips, they have an advantage in pretty much every sport they go into minus something like distance swimming in which any significant muscle mass in general can be a disadvantage. This could be another reason why the KB swing is such an effective tool.

Anyone thoughts on this?

In my sport (Olympic weightlifting), strong grip and hips are necessary, but not sufficient.

Once you get past the third pull, grip is out of the picture. And that third pull has a lot of traps/back.

Coming out of hole on a snatch or clean is more quads/legs than hips

Ditto for the jerk.

Holding the bar over your head and standing there while you wait for the white lights doesn't really have a grip or hip element. Back and shoulders.

Weightlifters have big quads, big butts, big backs, big shoulders.

And usually comparatively underdeveloped chests.

[that's why my avatar shows my back ]

 

[watchnerd]

Well I don't know how easily a person could get a strong grip without also strengthening the upper body. Even just holding onto a weight, there's other muscles that also react to the load and hold tension.

Captains of Crush.

No holding weight required.

Also, when holding barbells, hook grip lets you "cheat" and hold far more weight than your natural grip strength would allow.

Which is why I'm cross training with grippers.....I'm so adept at using the hook grip, that my natural grip isn't nearly as strong as one might think given the barbells I hurl around.

I had to do something when I started working on my chin ups more and my grip was holding me back.

(hook gripping chin up bar doesn't work very well)

 

[SMalishev]

Captains of Crush.

No holding weight required.

Also, when holding barbells, hook grip lets you "cheat" and hold far more weight than your natural grip strength would allow.

Which is why I'm cross training with grippers.....I'm so adept at using the hook grip, that my natural grip isn't nearly as strong as one might think given the barbells I hurl around.

I had to do something when I started working on my chin ups more and my grip was holding me back.

(hook gripping chin up bar doesn't work very well)

That's a fair point. I had considered captains of crush, but didn't think about the hook grip

 

[WhatWouldHulkDo]

Weightlifters have big quads, big butts, big backs, big shoulders.

... and they cannot lie! (re: Sir Mix-a-Lot)

Realistically, "powerful hips" means some combination of strong quads, glutes and back, I reckon. So that tracks with the OP.

And usually comparatively underdeveloped chests.

This is an interesting one. I agree - was certainly true of me back when I did a lot of olympic lifting. Makes me wonder what sort of correlation there might be between natural (i.e. untrained) grip strength vs chest strength vs shoulder strength. I would say that my natural grip and chest strength is fair, but my natural shoulder strength is relatively weak.

 

[AndyMcL]

This is an interesting one. I agree - was certainly true of me back when I did a lot of olympic lifting. Makes me wonder what sort of correlation there might be between natural (i.e. untrained) grip strength vs chest strength vs shoulder strength. I would say that my natural grip and chest strength is fair, but my natural shoulder strength is relatively weak.

I think the answer might be simpler. Not much of a demand on weightlifting for a well developed chest so I imagine few do any direct chest work. And it's a weight class sport, so adding muscle to the chest means less muscle someplace else.

 

[WhatWouldHulkDo]

I think the answer might be simpler. Not much of a demand on weightlifting for a well developed chest so I imagine few do any direct chest work. And it's a weight class sport, so adding muscle to the chest means less muscle someplace else.

Oh, that's absolutely true for competitive weightlifters. I'm more looking at it from the angle of,looking at an untrained kid and trying to guess at athletic potential.

 

[watchnerd]

This is an interesting one. I agree - was certainly true of me back when I did a lot of olympic lifting. Makes me wonder what sort of correlation there might be between natural (i.e. untrained) grip strength vs chest strength vs shoulder strength. I would say that my natural grip and chest strength is fair, but my natural shoulder strength is relatively weak.

I think the answer might be simpler. Not much of a demand on weightlifting for a well developed chest so I imagine few do any direct chest work. And it's a weight class sport, so adding muscle to the chest means less muscle someplace else.

It's a couple of things.

As @AndyMcL said, it's a weight class sport, and bigger pecs don't do much to make you a better lifter, and they do add to weight.

The other reason is time -- there is only so many hours in the day, and by the time you do the competition lifts, technique drills, squats, and any accessory work to fix lagging areas, there is only so much energy left for "beach work"

But the last reason:

For some weightlifters, including me, getting bigger chest reduces shoulder mobility, making me less good at the snatch.

 

[watchnerd]

Oh, that's absolutely true for competitive weightlifters. I'm more looking at it from the angle of,looking at an untrained kid and trying to guess at athletic potential.

Depends on what they untrained kid is trying to do.

If he's just learning Power Cleans to get better at some other sport vs he's CJ Cummings.

 

[watchnerd]

All that being said:

I can do ring chest work and dips without negative shoulder mobility impact.

I don't know if it's the range motion, or the particular fibers it's hitting from a hypertrophy POV.