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Kettlebell Strong! Program Again

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Sauli said:
Welcome to the forum.

KB strong is ultra-minimalist program which focuses to building strength in single movement(dbl clean & press or front squat). It's long, but very effective program for that. I have'nt done it myself, but usually it makes your 5RM to 10+RM. This is very good progress! It's propably one the most effective programs for getting STRONG.

Moving target complex is more about building some size to your arms, shoulders, back and legs. It also delivers good strength gains when done properly with decent weights.

But what ever program you choose. Just do it. Consistency is key to success. :)

Ps. It's nice to have more Finno-ugrics here.
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Thank You! I'm thinking similar.
 
Tirofijo said:
Ah, I see.

I wonder, and hopefully Geoff will let us know, if he's talking about repeating it (and doubling/tripling it) with the same bell size? If you run it a second time, that original bell is no longer a 5 rep max weight. In that case tripling it would be more doable.

But that's just me theorizing since taking a good program and tripling it in the name of AGT seems strange. I'm on phase 2, and can't imagine tripling it. If I did, it would probably wreck me. And I'd have to have some very long rest periods. Of course, Phase 2 is higher reps than Phase 1. So maybe I'm wrong.

@Geoff Neupert
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@Tirofijo - Yes, first phase only where the reps are low.

Hope that helps.
 
Some feedback of my Strong! based program run through. This was purely to spice up my training for a short period and may not be Geoff's intention on how to use the program – and I didn't follow it to the letter. I completed phase 2 option 1 “the short course” of Double Clean and Push Press using 26kg bells (started session 1 with 28kg, but had a reality check). I used a slow negative rep down to rack. On days off I did some slow bike rides and walks and easy resistance band work.

The volume swiftly ramps up from sets of 2s and 3s at the beginning to sets of 6s by the end. The programme is only 12 sessions. Due to life this ended up taking 5 weeks, with 3 sessions in the first week, 2 in the 2nd week, 3 in the 3rd week, 2 in 4th week and 3 in the 5th week. This equals 13 sessions because I made a mistake and completed one session twice.

My last session was incomplete as I tweaked an old injury in my knee ligament. Maybe a sign I was attempting too much volume too quickly by the end. One elbow was also nigglingly sore by the end.

Points from my notebook:
  • I really felt it when I got to 10 sets of 5 and 6. I had to lie down when the session was over and often felt in desperate need of a nap later in the day. It was fatiguing.​
  • I started muscling the bells early on, but when it got to higher rep sets I was forced to improve form just to get through.​
  • As it was 500+ reps over 5 weeks I had to use Geoff's advice – reviewed his technique videos more than once, and took more recovery (sleep more, hot baths, massage etc.).​
  • Start position – the recommended inverted V for the handles gives me a sore deltoid/ upper arm after sessions. When I reverted back to Pavel's original V position the soreness disappears. Not sure why.​
Results: I feel more conditioned and stronger. My diet wasn't that clean but I lost 1 inch around the belly button and my forearms seem to have grown by nearly an inch! Elsewhere unchanged. I recorded some pre-program “kind of max” lifts on double kettlebell strict press and front squat. They both went up from 4 to 5 reps so thats some carryover.

My conclusions: I would try a slower option next time. The ballistic motions of cleans and pushes were tough on the lungs and tiring in an “all over body” way. I may come back to this in the winter using clean and press instead.
 
I think I may have finally burned out my left shoulder on this :( Might have to take a break for a few weeks. I even took a week off a few weeks ago, and did 2 sessions last week, but I think the accumulating volume just caught up with me. Not too much pain on the press itself, but pulling the bells back to the rack was giving some odd pain.

I think I'm gonna take the rest of this week off, and try to to a few weeks of deloading and rehabing with a lighter bell, and see how I feel. Hopefully I can finish this second phase, I've liked the progress I made so far and wanted to try again with a size up after this.
 
LejonBrames said:
I think I may have finally burned out my left shoulder on this :( Might have to take a break for a few weeks. I even took a week off a few weeks ago, and did 2 sessions last week, but I think the accumulating volume just caught up with me. Not too much pain on the press itself, but pulling the bells back to the rack was giving some odd pain.

I think I'm gonna take the rest of this week off, and try to to a few weeks of deloading and rehabing with a lighter bell, and see how I feel. Hopefully I can finish this second phase, I've liked the progress I made so far and wanted to try again with a size up after this.
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I hope you get well soon!

I am currently doing the program as well (in the end of phase 1) and I feel the volume accumulating after having the feeling of 'not doing so much'. I guess a proper mobility, perfect technique, a good mobility routine and a great warm up are necessary to prevent yourself from getting an injury. Especially when you are on programs like this.

I think it's great to follow a program like this which has only 3 very short training sessions per week. It allows you to do some extra mobility and to do a proper warm up without being stressed about needing too much time for your training.

I started with GGP last week and I guess it's a perfect fit for the Strong! program. Just don't do too much additional work, you won't recover and even get injured.
 
Xene said:
I started with GGP last week and I guess it's a perfect fit for the Strong! program.
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Forgive my ignorance but what is GGP? I’m into the second week of Strong! myself (and absolutely loving it) so I’m intrigued by anything which is a perfect fit.
 
I mean no disrespect to anyone but having done the program more than once and being in the middle of it again I can say this is why I stopped adding "this or that" to the program.

It seems harmless enough to add just "a few front squats or snatches and pull ups" but in reality they add volume to the shoulder girdle in one way or another. This is an issue when you start doing say 10 sets of 4 about 2 months after 4 reps were your rep max!

Just my 2 cents.
 
In no way was my post meant as a negative to the GGP by Pavel M. I am sure it's excellent as in my opinion Pavel M is a talented and skillful trainer and student of strength. Love his dumbbell work!
 
John Grahill said:
I mean no disrespect to anyone but having done the program more than once and being in the middle of it again I can say this is why I stopped adding "this or that" to the program.

It seems harmless enough to add just "a few front squats or snatches and pull ups" but in reality they add volume to the shoulder girdle in one way or another. This is an issue when you start doing say 10 sets of 4 about 2 months after 4 reps were your rep max!

Just my 2 cents.
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Thank you for your input.
But I don't see GGP as additional training. If you use it as a recharger it's more something between a mobility program and just a way to move through the movements of your body. It's about getting a flow and taking it easy. I don't get sore from it. It's the first thing in the morning I do and it gets my joints warm and my back ready for the day.

About additional training you are totally correct. I started the Strong! program with some front squats and some pull ups but I stopped it pretty quickly. Right now I just do some long runs/rows and every second week I go for some low volume hill sprints to keep some athleticism. But yeah, Strong! won't allow you to do much more. I eat more, that's for sure. Haha..
 
Regarding adding exercises to the program, I feel that confusion comes from this:

“Sure, you can add in some other exercises as a warm up or when you’re done with your workouts, but save your energy for this big “bang for your buck” exercise. “

I know @Geoff Neupert has addressed the adding of ‘extras’ earlier in this thread but is there a chance the sentence above can be open to interpretation according to recovery, etc?

To clarify, I’m not one who likes to edit programs to suit his tastes - I’d much rather trust the author, the program and the process - but that line does throw me somewhat.
 
@Geoff Neupert , there is a question on your blog post that was interesting to me, it reads.
“
Hi Geoff,
You mention that “in order to modify it [One program] for AGT purposes, since it’s already on a one minute clock, I’d turn it into a low-rep EMOM program, extending the duration of the program to build mitochondrial density”.

1a) How many reps are considered low in EMOM double swings? Is it 10 double swing reps EMOM prescribed like Q&D ?

1b) Can ‘One’ be done with 5 double swing reps every 30 seconds like Q&D?

2) How long can the duration of the One protocol be extended? I’m aiming for endurance so is 25 min. okay with double swings?

Thanks for this program!”

I was assuming low rep emom meant 3-5 reps of double swings. Is there some kind of general rule to follow such as do 3 to 5 reps with bells you can swing a minimum of 10 times?

im thinking if trying to double swings with your kettlebell strong sized bells for reps is too difficult then a person should run phase 1 again with double or triple the sets like you suggest before progressing to the a+a swing phase.
 
Provx said:
@Geoff Neupert , there is a question on your blog post that was interesting to me, it reads.
“
Hi Geoff,
You mention that “in order to modify it [One program] for AGT purposes, since it’s already on a one minute clock, I’d turn it into a low-rep EMOM program, extending the duration of the program to build mitochondrial density”.

1a) How many reps are considered low in EMOM double swings? Is it 10 double swing reps EMOM prescribed like Q&D ?

1b) Can ‘One’ be done with 5 double swing reps every 30 seconds like Q&D?

2) How long can the duration of the One protocol be extended? I’m aiming for endurance so is 25 min. okay with double swings?

Thanks for this program!”

I was assuming low rep emom meant 3-5 reps of double swings. Is there some kind of general rule to follow such as do 3 to 5 reps with bells you can swing a minimum of 10 times?

im thinking if trying to double swings with your kettlebell strong sized bells for reps is too difficult then a person should run phase 1 again with double or triple the sets like you suggest before progressing to the a+a swing phase.
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Provx,

1a) Depends on the weight you're using. ~15s or less is optimal.

1b) See "1a" - but follow the Q&D protocols for time.

2) The "One" protocol is flexible. You can extend it as long as you'd like, as long as you understand the loading parameters in relation to your goals. The second determine the former and therefore the former must be adjusted accordingly.

3) The "general rule of thumb" if training for power is to always stop the set when your power drops from one rep to the next. If you can't keep the power up, terminate the training session.

4) Sorry, I don't understand that last question - you mind rephrasing? Are you talking about "One" or "Strong!" here?

Hope that helps.
 
Geoff Neupert said:
Provx,

1a) Depends on the weight you're using. ~15s or less is optimal.

1b) See "1a" - but follow the Q&D protocols for time.

2) The "One" protocol is flexible. You can extend it as long as you'd like, as long as you understand the loading parameters in relation to your goals. The second determine the former and therefore the former must be adjusted accordingly.

3) The "general rule of thumb" if training for power is to always stop the set when your power drops from one rep to the next. If you can't keep the power up, terminate the training session.

4) Sorry, I don't understand that last question - you mind rephrasing? Are you talking about "One" or "Strong!" here?

Hope that helps.
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on #4 i was trying to say, for example, i use 36kgs for strong. If i am unable to use the 36kgs to swing powerfully for 15 seconds this could be a signal that re-running strong with double or triple the sets may be a better option than dropping down to say 28kgs for the one program.

But since you are referencing power i could be mistaken and a person should just use whatever weight they can swing powerfully, even if that means dropping down to a single kettlebell.

probably both approaches work depending on the goal.

really enjoying working through strong thank you for your thoughts.
 
After 2 weeks off, today I did the first workout from "The Short Course". I figured I would use this to ramp back up to where I was on the long haul phase, and try to continue on from there.

Hopefully all goes well. Left arm felt fine as far as I could tell, but if I burn out again, I may just switch programs for a few weeks/months so I don't aggravate too much
 
Whenever I press two bells overhead I have some lower back pain the day after, or even during the same night.

I now asked myself:

Could DCP be done with a belt? This could save one's back. I never saw someone using a belt for kettlebell work, but it could be worth a try.

@Geoff Neupert
 
This thread is outstanding. Impressive results as always @John Grahill !

I've run strong! with 24s in the past and I'm currently running DFW with 24s. I want to run Strong again after DFW but the great KB shortage might make it difficult. I have double 32s but only one 28. I'm guessing 28s would be the ideal weight for my next round of Strong!

Hopefully I'll be able to press the 32s for 4 reps after DFW. However if I can't get 4 solid reps and the 28 isn't back in stock what options do I have for getting the 32s to 4 reps to run strong?

I'm considering:

1. Soju and tuba with the 32s (if I get 2 or 3 reps with the 32s)

2. Jumping straight into Strong phase 2 again with the 24s if the 32s are giving me problems.

3. Strong with the 32s as a push press.

Which of those options (or any I've missed) sounds like the best way to get to Strong with the 32s?

For reference in DFW I just did 7x(1, 2, 3) in 30 mins with the 24s yesterday. I've gotten 3 reps in the past with a single 32 but only 1 with double 32s.

Thanks for everything @Geoff Neupert. DFW is great, I'm loving it. Strength shortcuts is ridiculously good period. Even more so for a give away.
 
@Xene I'm not an expert but I personally think I'd be too restricted with a belt. I've had back issues in the past and a daily dose of original strength plus bird dogs help me.
 
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