Kettlebell Strong! Program Again

[John Grahill]

@Sean M as I've stated many times, I'm not an instructor but I've done the program. You may have more options than you think.

You could do the clean and press with the 24s. Don't be concerned about your 4 to 5 RM, remember the program calls for a pair of bells that's a tough 4 or 5 reps for grinds. I'm betting that if the 24s are a 6rm, then they certainly are a "tough" five reps. I've learned to be a little less pedantic these days.

Remember, the program increases volume quickly and subsequent phases reduce rest times between sets. Doing a 6 or so RM at the start and really dialing in technique would most likely work in my humble opinion.

Just a thought.

 

[Kettlebelephant]

I’m hearing the following “pecking order” for Strong exercise selection, right?

C&P (best choice) > Push Press (w/ slow negative) > FSQ > Clean

I think Geoff holds the DFSQ in much higher regard. It's kind of the center of his double KB work, because you learn it first and build everything else (zipping up etc.) with it before going into the other lifts.

if you weren’t going to spend some time driving up the DFSQ

That's part of his response to you. I'm speculating here, but to me it seems that he would like you to spend time with the DFSQ, but knows that people tend to favor the "cooler, flashier" lifts and therefore also mentions the option to use the push press.

Don't think of the DFSQ as "just a squat". It's more. People report things like increased pressing strength after focusing on it even though they didn't press for a couple of time.
Not to go too far off, but I'd argue that a routine made up of only DFSQ + single arm snatches (e.g. 2x per week STRONG + 2x per week A+A snatches) would be a tremendous minimalistic program.

 

[Sean M]

I think Geoff holds the DFSQ in much higher regard. It's kind of the center of his double KB work, because you learn it first and build everything else (zipping up etc.) with it before going into the other lifts.

That's part of his response to you. I'm speculating here, but to me it seems that he would like you to spend time with the DFSQ, but knows that people tend to favor the "cooler, flashier" lifts and therefore also mentions the option to use the push press.

Don't think of the DFSQ as "just as squat". It's more. People report things like increased pressing strength after focusing on it even though they didn't press for a couple of time.
Not to go too far off, but I'd argue that a routine made up of only DFSQ + single arm snatches (e.g. 2x per week STRONG + 2x per week A+A snatches) would be a tremendous minimalistic program.

Makes sense. My original context was: is there value in working up a pair of bells you can only clean (but can’t squat or get overhead), or is the time better spent with a slightly less heavy pair you can squat and/or get overhead? The answer appears to be the latter, which makes sense intuitively.

I think my hinge/deadlift is way ahead of my squat, because I can DL~400 but struggle with 1 2x32kg front squat (and haven’t trained barbell squat in a long time). It seems “off” that someone can clean (for reps) but not squat (for reps) a given pair of bells...

 

[Geoff Neupert]

Makes sense. My original context was: is there value in working up a pair of bells you can only clean (but can’t squat or get overhead), or is the time better spent with a slightly less heavy pair you can squat and/or get overhead? The answer appears to be the latter, which makes sense intuitively.

I think my hinge/deadlift is way ahead of my squat, because I can DL~400 but struggle with 1 2x32kg front squat (and haven’t trained barbell squat in a long time). It seems “off” that someone can clean (for reps) but not squat (for reps) a given pair of bells...

Sean,

I'd review the rationale for "technique stacking" in "Kettlebell STRONG!".

Then, along with running a cycle with the DFSQ, I'd go step-by-step through the video tutorials, walking along with us, and practicing your FSQ & Press. That way you may find some areas that could use some improvement. You never know, you could find something that immediately improves your Press.

Hope that helps.

 

[User 4484]

I think Geoff holds the DFSQ in much higher regard. It's kind of the center of his double KB work, because you learn it first and build everything else (zipping up etc.) with it before going into the other lifts.

That's part of his response to you. I'm speculating here, but to me it seems that he would like you to spend time with the DFSQ, but knows that people tend to favor the "cooler, flashier" lifts and therefore also mentions the option to use the push press.

Don't think of the DFSQ as "just as squat". It's more. People report things like increased pressing strength after focusing on it even though they didn't press for a couple of time.
Not to go too far off, but I'd argue that a routine made up of only DFSQ + single arm snatches (e.g. 2x per week STRONG + 2x per week A+A snatches) would be a tremendous minimalistic program.

This whole post in general but more specific the bolded part is why we need you on this forum. If this was reddit you could have all my gold good sir!

 

[MikeMoran]

So I have done STRONG a few times. BOTH C&P and FSQ

Now that I am more experienced but it has been some time since I have played with a pair of bells...

What can you add or not add to keep the experience solid

IE, Thinking of adding in some sets of Pull Ups , Ab Wheel and Loaded carries/crawls into the STRONG days. Not a lot! Anyone else add to their STRONG days?

 

[John Grahill]

@MikeMoran , I have done pullups and front squats before ..... allowing 3 sets maximum of each. This was in phase one. By the time phase two got going, I was too darned tired to add stuff! Being older and wiser, I have found less is more....my best results are just doing Strong as is.

The workouts themselves aren't terribly long in duration but in my case I usually add 3 to 5 sets of warm ups. It adds minimally to the volume but in my case at my age, it helps!

By the way, good to see you posting here again!

 

[lokate]

I am a martial artist and like to get stronger and leaner.
Tru internet you get confused. Some say bodyweight is best, some isometrics, or barbell.
I have doen kb strong often, but then i read about another routine and did that again.
But i can feel that kb strong does much more for me. I realy felt strong then.
I am not that strong i did the c & p with 20 kilo so i can much stronger if i read that people can do it with 32.
So i go back now to kb strong.
And try to stick to it. Its simple and effectieve and think its a good combination with my martial arts training.
I just think that i have to do more like pull ups orso. Is that neccasary to get whole body strong?

 

[Mark Limbaga]

I am a martial artist and like to get stronger and leaner.
Tru internet you get confused. Some say bodyweight is best, some isometrics, or barbell.
I have doen kb strong often, but then i read about another routine and did that again.
But i can feel that kb strong does much more for me. I realy felt strong then.
I am not that strong i did the c & p with 20 kilo so i can much stronger if i read that people can do it with 32.
So i go back now to kb strong.
And try to stick to it. Its simple and effectieve and think its a good combination with my martial arts training.
I just think that i have to do more like pull ups orso. Is that neccasary to get whole body strong?

Something to think about..

How much more power (and stronger) can you kick, punch, knee, elbow, throw, takedown, do chokes or joint locks when you combine enough practice and can comfortably use 24kgs? 28kg?

 

[lokate]

Yep you are right. Thats why i dont want to spend all the time on complicated routines, so kb strong seems perfect .
Dont you think so?

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Yep you are right. Thats why i dont want to spend all the time on complicated routines, so kb strong seems perfect .
Dont you think so?

Yes it makes a good choice.

What discipline do you practice?

 

[lokate]

Jeet kune do and trying to focus on real street confrontations. Since i have to Be all kind of martial arts i am now confinsed that self defense is different than doiing katas etc.
No offence of katas but now i Do it different. I am 59 by the wat and practice martial arts since the age of 15

 

[ThorsFavoriteGoat]

@MikeMoran , I have done pullups and front squats before ..... allowing 3 sets maximum of each. This was in phase one. By the time phase two got going, I was too darned tired to add stuff! Being older and wiser, I have found less is more....my best results are just doing Strong as is.

The workouts themselves aren't terribly long in duration but in my case I usually add 3 to 5 sets of warm ups. It adds minimally to the volume but in my case at my age, it helps!

By the way, good to see you posting here again!

As usual, I agree with @John Grahill 100% on this. I have run Strong 2 times. Once you get into the 3rd week or so, you shouldn't have a lot of desire to do much more work.

I would start each session with 5x3 pull ups and end it with 3-5 sets of light/medium front squats. My mindset was that this was just for maintenance.

If I was feeling beat up, I would just skip those. By the end, I was only doing those things once a week.

 

[lokate]

Thanks, that seems like a good suggestion, i will give it a try.
Most of the time i Do some pull ups another day as a gtg thing.

 

[John Grahill]

.....Actually I increased my pullups "just"doing double clean and presses. The "active pulling the bells back down to the rack" works. FWIW.

 

[John Grahill]

Today starts triples. This is getting "fun" again!

 

[Eugenio]

After an email exchange with Geoff Neupert this week I started using Strong with the following format (2 lifts Double Clean & Press KBs kg 36 and Barbell Zercher Squat kg 107)
Day 1 Double Clean & Press
Day 2 Zercher Squat Barbell
Day 4 Double Clean & Press
Day 5 Zercher Squat Barbell

For the Warm Up (and fun) a very easy complex with double KBs kg 24 (Double Snatch, Double Swing, Double Clean, Double MP, FSQ) usualy 5 sets with 2/3 reps

 

[Sean M]

After an email exchange with Geoff Neupert this week I started using Strong with the following format (2 lifts Double Clean & Press KBs kg 36 and Barbell Zercher Squat kg 107)
Day 1 Double Clean & Press
Day 2 Zercher Squat Barbell
Day 4 Double Clean & Press
Day 5 Zercher Squat Barbell

For the Warm Up (and fun) a very easy complex with double KBs kg 24 (Double Snatch, Double Swing, Double Clean, Double MP, FSQ) usualy 5 sets with 2/3 reps

Interesting - how did you land on 107kg? Are you going to keep that weight while manipulating sets and reps, or increase weight too (if so, how)?

 

[Eugenio]

Interesting - how did you land on 107kg? Are you going to keep that weight while manipulating sets and reps, or increase weight too (if so, how)?

Hi Sean M, kg 107 in my 5/6 RPM in Zercher Squat (Double 36s is my 4 RMP in Clean & Press), I will use the Strong!'s format for both lifts, until for the end of phase 2

 

[Provx]

As I wrote above i was scared of my ability to do multiple reps of double 36kg cleans, even though i could press them for reps. I warmed up today and committed to doing just 2 reps of double 36kg cleans, it came easily. After that i did more sets including a set of 5 cleans.
its funny how your body can do the work after your mind realizes that its possible.