Kettlebell Strong! Program Again

[Provx]

It would be interesting to do a body type study on lifting somehow. For instance i feel great and super energized doing strong, dfw, and q&d. Basically high weight with ample rest period stuff. The programs that use lower weights but more time under tension really beat me up quickly. I imagine lots of people are the opposite.

 

[Sean M]

It would be interesting to do a body type study on lifting somehow. For instance i feel great and super energized doing strong, dfw, and q&d. Basically high weight with ample rest period stuff. The programs that use lower weights but more time under tension really beat me up quickly. I imagine lots of people are the opposite.

I imagine it is the alactic/aerobic vs glycolytic effect.

 

[Geoff Neupert]

Just did my rep max, the last day of the first phase.

Before KB Strong, it was 4-5 reps(don't remember the exact number) with 16k, and just now it was 10 reps with 16k. I could have probably gotten one or two more with form breakdown.

After about 15ish minutes, I tried with 20k:

In the beginning, with 20k, it was slowly, barely inching out a single Clean and Press(I think I initially checked maybe a week or more into the first phase, so it may have been 0 at the very beginning), and today it was 6 reps with the 6th rep faster and strong than the first one weeks go :O.

This was realllllly unexpected. In fairness, I used to be able to do around 3 with the 20k, but I think 6 in a row is the most I've ever done. I could have pumped out one more junk rep, or push-pressed it, but figured I better not mess with my shoulder if I want to continue onto phase 2 tomorrow.

I actually can't decide if I want to go to phase 2, or redo phase 1 with 20k haha. I think I will stick with the plan since this is my first time through Strong and the results don't lie.

Thank you Geoff, these results are a welcome and unexpected surprise.

Excellent work, @LejonBrames !

Thanks for letting us know of your success!

 

[Nightfly]

Can I have some experienced advice on kb strong for me please? I bought the programme and did it a few years ago with clean and press phase 1 then part of phase 2 (the slow version). I am sure I read it works well with differing moves apart from c+p?

Age early 50s
225 lbs, 6 foot 2
aim: Could do with losing a few pounds for a month to 6 weeks with a thrice weekly simple programme, using new movements that interest me. So to up the intensity a bit and have a change.

Recent experience 5 to 6 months of barbell work at home but I have no lofty goals and it's been slow and steady improvements. Completed simple few years ago but find it tough to meet the timed test standard.

Proposal: strong with clean and push press movement
Short course, which would last 4 ish weeks, so fairly high volume
However, could I do cleans first then immediately the PP

Tried a test session last night with double 28s and it felt good but challenging. However, cleaning requires legs apart, and push press requires legs close in so the transition is awkward. It was easier doing all cleans then all PP's? Would this work?

Thanks

 

[John Grahill]

@Nightfly I have done Strong! with the clean and push press in 2015. The push press portion of the combination doesn't require the feet close together as far as I know.

Try it after a clean without moving them together.

Having said that, in a recent correspondence with Geoff prior to starting this round of the strong program I inquired about doing push presses without a clean and he indicated to me that whenever he has suggested push presses or jerks for the strong program he has meant them to be full or long cycles. He did offer a suggestion of doing the movement as a complex, push presses then cleans or cleans then push presses. I chose the clean and press and am enjoying it however I'm pretty certain the complex you suggest would work nicely. To be honest, I've done Strong phase one with two dumbbells a couple of years ago and it worked as advertised. I believe Geoff said he has had trainees use double snatches with success and bodyweight movements too.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Here's what I can share about the clean and push press done long cycle style..

They can go head to head with complexes in terms of improving body composition so I'd say go for it

 

[Nightfly]

Thanks for the advice gents. I will try it as c+pp each rep and see if legs apart will feel more natural with practise. I was only going on some form video guides I saw from SF instructors. Perhaps I need to go back to Geoff's videos and review them!
Will let you know how it goes.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Thanks for the advice gents. I will try it as c+pp each rep and see if legs apart will feel more natural with practise. I was only going on some form video guides I saw from SF instructors. Perhaps I need to go back to Geoff's videos and review them!
Will let you know how it goes.

You'll do fine.. it takes some practice... How I wish I was taller whenever I am working with 28s or 32s

 

[jhpowers]

Just curious, what is the current thinking about adding pull ups to KB Strong with the double C&P? Advised or not? How to program if so? I know that Cris Lopez used to recommend doing so, but the thinking evolves over time.

 

[John Grahill]

@jhpowers , I'm not an instructor but....in the past I would have said do them for sure, but now I advise against it. If you're doing double c+p's the SF way you're doing an active "pull down into the rack" using your lats. I'd rather save my recovery.

I'm plugging through strong right now and am making nice progress without the "additives" included.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Just curious, what is the current thinking about adding pull ups to KB Strong with the double C&P? Advised or not? How to program if so? I know that Cris Lopez used to recommend doing so, but the thinking evolves over time.

Can be done on ph 1 and slow and steady.. Not recommended for short course

 

[jhpowers]

Can be done on ph 1 and slow and steady.. Not recommended for short course

This was my past experience but I usually dropped the pull ups when the slow and steady reps got to about 5 because I could feel my recovery lagging. The 5 and 6 rep sequences were brutal for me. I was wondering whether the overall pressing gains would be better without the pull ups. Then again, when my workouts become too minimalist I usually stall out. It's hard to find the just right dose of stress to produce the right adaptation.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

This was my past experience but I usually dropped the pull ups when the slow and steady reps got to about 5 because I could feel my recovery lagging. The 5 and 6 rep sequences were brutal for me. I was wondering whether the overall pressing gains would be better without the pull ups. Then again, when my workouts become too minimalist I usually stall out. It's hard to find the just right dose of stress to produce the right adaptation.

You can try keeping the pullup sets at 5 once you get to the 5 rep level

 

[Im out]

I would run push presses with bells i could only strict press for 2 or 3 reps

 

[Geoff Neupert]

Can I have some experienced advice on kb strong for me please? I bought the programme and did it a few years ago with clean and press phase 1 then part of phase 2 (the slow version). I am sure I read it works well with differing moves apart from c+p?

Age early 50s
225 lbs, 6 foot 2
aim: Could do with losing a few pounds for a month to 6 weeks with a thrice weekly simple programme, using new movements that interest me. So to up the intensity a bit and have a change.

Recent experience 5 to 6 months of barbell work at home but I have no lofty goals and it's been slow and steady improvements. Completed simple few years ago but find it tough to meet the timed test standard.

Proposal: strong with clean and push press movement
Short course, which would last 4 ish weeks, so fairly high volume
However, could I do cleans first then immediately the PP

Tried a test session last night with double 28s and it felt good but challenging. However, cleaning requires legs apart, and push press requires legs close in so the transition is awkward. It was easier doing all cleans then all PP's? Would this work?

Thanks

Nightfly,

You can do C+PP with "Strong!".

You can run it doing C+PP, C+PP... or you can run it as a complex if you want to.

There are many different ways you can "cook" it, but the "original recipe," C+P works best. Why not just do that and commit to doing the program from start to finish?

Also, you don't need to reshuffle your legs between reps of the clean and any overhead work.

Hope that helps.

 

[Geoff Neupert]

A Few Thoughts On Running The "Strong!" Program...

There are an awful lot of "Can I do ____" and "What if I _____" questions about the "Strong!" program.

Here are some my thoughts on such statements, if you care to know them:

(1) The "Strong!" program is designed to work best with the Clean and the Press, performed in an alternating fashion, as one lift - 1 Clean + 1 Press = 1 rep. Many people have tested and proven this out. @John Grahill is one such person.

(2) If you have limited kettlebells and can't manage the starting requirement because your KBs are too heavy, you can approach "Strong!" in the following sequence using the pair of KBs you have:

- Perform Double Front Squats
- Perform Double Clean + Jerks (If you can jerk)
- Perform Double Clean + Push Presses w/drop into rack
- Perform Double Clean + Push Presses w/active negative press (pulling bells down into rack)

From there, you should be able to hit the starting requirement for the C+P and run the "Strong!" program as outlined.

(3) "Can I do Pull Ups, Jumping Pistols, and wrestle alligators on my "off" days between "Strong!" workouts?"

Yes. But then you're not "doing" the "Strong!" program. You're doing your own thing. So there's approximately zero guarantee that the "Strong!" program will work for you. And if/when it doesn't, don't blame "the program." Because you didn't do it. You did "Strong!" PLUS your own thing. And that's not the "Strong!" program. The "Strong!" program is 3 days a week of training, 4 days a week of recovering and living the rest of your life.

(If you feel you need conditioning, there's also the "One" program and I've written inside the book how to combine the two for best results.)

(4) If you're looking for a minimalist, low complexity, high yield program that covers practically every muscle in your body - posterior chain, upper back, shoulders, arms, grip, abs, legs...

... Then follow the "Strong!" program as written - using the Double KB Clean + Press. Repeat until you can C+P your bodyweight. For reps. Then you'll know you're strong. (And pretty much everything else you do with a KB will be easy for you.)

Now imagine this:

You watch the technique videos inside the "Kettlebell STRONG!" program. You find out what things you've been doing incorrectly, and how to fix them so you can lift more weight more explosively and get stronger. Then, you commit to practicing those new techniques and running the "Strong!" program exactly as written - 3 days a week, resting the other days of the week.

And then, 3, 4, 6 months from today, you're stronger, leaner, more muscular than you have been in a long time - maybe ever. All because you:

1) Trusted the programming process
2) Had patience
3) Persevered through the program without distraction

I sincerely hope that helps you if you're contemplating how to get the best results from the "Strong!" program.

If you do decide to commit to running the program, please chime back in here and let us know about your results.

 

[Trever]

I’ve read this entire thread and must have missed it, but I have one simple question. Where can I buy the “Strong” program? Thanks.

 

[jhpowers]

StrongFirst: Training Center

Get stronger, faster, by using a pair of kettlebells. “Kettlebell STRONG!” methodology accelerates this process through “Technique Stacking.”

strongfirst.skilltrain.com

 

[Nightfly]

Nightfly,

You can do C+PP with "Strong!".

You can run it doing C+PP, C+PP... or you can run it as a complex if you want to.

There are many different ways you can "cook" it, but the "original recipe," C+P works best. Why not just do that and commit to doing the program from start to finish?

Also, you don't need to reshuffle your legs between reps of the clean and any overhead work.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for the reply Geoff. The strong! program was very good at improving my RM using clean and press in the past and you're probably right, but it's a long commitment and not one on my radar at the moment. So I have accepted I am trying a home brew program "inspired by strong!" you could say, as I am just looking for 4 to 6 weeks of something different. I did consider your MKM complexes/ burn extreme etc but frankly they are a bit too intense for me... I don't enjoy pain!

This thread did inspire me to rewatch your excellent strong video tutorials and my C+PP should improve as a result.

All the best

 

[Dayz]

I love this thread!

Question: how well does the C+P (specifically the clean portion I guess) train the lower body compared to the swing?

To me I feel a lot more tension / work in my glutes and hams with the swing compared to the clean. Maybe that's just because there's less time between contractions with the swing because once you clean then move to press, the tension on the lower body is a bit relieved as the upper body takes over a bit. I'm not sure?

My real question is: how heavily does the C+P train the lower body compared to swing?

Understanding this would help me compare double clean and press as one movement as opposed to swing and strict press as two separate moves, possibly with different bell sizes.