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Other/Mixed StrongFirst in the military

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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Steve Rogers said:
Here is another question along with that:

CrossFit seems to nail the mental endurance side of things. It is possibly why a lot of military personnel have embraced it. However we all know on this board that it isn't the smartest way to go about training. Is there a way to combine both? How would you do that? For example - watch the Netflix Dubai Crossfit episode. Those guys and girls have that 100% never quit mentality which is needed and loved in the military. But they also are injuring themselves constantly. In our profession we can't afford that.
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Just watched the Dubai episode Sunday. It was a great watch and yes, they never quit. I'll give them that.
 
Steve Rogers said:
Yea I agree 100%. Where would you recommend that "bullet proof Friday" session is thrown into either a base or peak training plan?
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I wouldn't put it in a peaking phase at all.

In the base phase, it depends how much you need it. My impression is that you don't need to train that quality much because you already have it.

Looking back, I don't know what makes the best SMMF (single movement mind @#$&). It should be monotonous, not so intense that it will cause injury and intense enough that accumulation and fatigue set in so micro trauma doesn't cause significant injury. It should also be uncomfortable to keep going.

Maybe a really long crawl without gloves?
 
Steve Rogers said:
Yea I agree 100%. Where would you recommend that "bullet proof Friday" session is thrown into either a base or peak training plan?

I'm thinking either every two or three weeks pick one day where I throw on a heavy ruck and grind it out for 3 hours, or do a MARSOC short card and then a PFT. Or do a 3-5 hour pool thrash session. The problem with putting it in a base training or peaking session is the body might not be ready for it. It's a lot like taking someone learning to crawl and having them sprint - something bad is bound to happen.

I've done 400 eight counts after losing my map during land nav after two weeks of finding points and it was just the mental game. However, I noticed it took away from my endurance and started the process of me hitting that wall. I've also done the coffee filter test where the cadre crank the heat up to 90+ degrees and make you workout until your sweat drenches the coffee filter. Unfortunately I didn't drink much water that day and after 20 straight minutes I only had 2 drops - they stopped me before I went down as a heat casualty because I wouldn't quit.

So even though I've done that stuff and I agree it is necessary for preparing your mind for combat and the intense nature of these jobs - I am wondering do you think there is a StrongFirst way to approach this?
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Steve you have the mental toughness already, there's no need to exceed your capacity and set your training back by prematurely smashing yourself (the smashing yourself will come - but why rush it? again you have the mental strength) please note, it is your call as to what your current 'capacity' is.

In S&S (at least the original and I'm paraphrasing here) Pavel talks about going hard once every two or four weeks.

You can create mental/ physical challenges that will test your will power without prematurely 'burning you out' and setting you back.
These can still have a sense of progression and development within these 'testing sessions', as time goes on.

Examples:
  1. Do breath control whilst running / rucking (inhale 2 steps, exhale 2 steps, building ladder fashion to 20 in/ 20 out)
  2. Hypoxic KB swings
  3. Cold showers
  4. Contrast showers
  5. Fasting (if appropriate)
  6. Isometric holds
  7. Heavy / Odd object carries for 1/2mile or longer
  8. 1 Mile crawl (obviously build up to this)
  9. Fasted endurance (i.e. no breakfast and do 10mile ruck)
I know soldiers aren't in the same category as olympic athletes BUT we can learn something from them.

That is - There is an optimal sequence of training activities/ blocks to produce the best athletic capacity for a known event at a know date.

And the best bit is you have control over your training until selection by the sounds of it, rather than someone getting you to do random Crossfit workouts with no attention to recovery and long term progression.

Apologies for the rant. I've been stupid with training for a long time (20yrs) and slowly learning thanks to SF to do it right.
 
You guys are awesome! No need to apologize for the wisdom @kiwipete . I didn’t see a rant there. I have only been in 9 years vice your 20 but I still did a lot of things wrong.

This thread has been incredibly refreshing and helpful for me and all of your collective wisdom is phenomenal.
 
Jim Wendler's article on his conditioning (link here: My Conditioning By Era) over the span of several decades has some big implications for us in uniform. Namely the phrase 'legs and lungs'.

There are tons of ways to get after it, but I am finding as I am getting north of thirty-five, the best ways are the ones that are sustainable. Books like Simple and Sinister and the Alactic and Aerobic thread offer quite the insights for this. For example I could repeat this morning's session tomorrow, even after rucking this afternoon at an aerobic pace:

A.M. Session:

2x KB Jerk 2/32KG x 1
2x KB Front Squat 2/32 x 1
Rest
2x KB Jerk 2/32KG x 2
2x KB Front Squat 2/32 x 1
Rest
2x KB Jerk 2/32KG x 3
Hand Release Pushups x 2
Rest
Snatch @ 24KG x 5
Military Press @ 32KG 1x/Arm
Rest
Snatch @ 24KG x 5
Military Press @ 32KG x 1/Arm
Rest

I ran through the sequence above three times, for a total of fifteen sets for a relatively modest volume overall.
 
So a couple more thoughts. I think we covered prepping for either a bootcamp or selection type event, and a little on deployment.

I want to drill down a little on deployments. As you know it’s kind of a constant physical/mental grind. You typically lose strength or endurance (I did at least). Lets say you do your base training and then peak for your deployment. What would you be doing during the deployment? It’s not a short month long or 3 month long selection. Do you maintain? I know S&S has been good. What if you don’t have kettlebells?
 
@Bro Mo - that or a really long......Fill in the blank: Ruck movement, pool session, ocean fin, etc. Anyone can gut out a 30 minute or hour long session. But the quit factor goes up when you have another hour, or two, or three left to go. The best mental builders are the unknown distance or time events. That’s hard to do on yourself so it’s best to have a buddy plan it for you.
 
An out and back can work if you don't turn around until you think you've gone to far.

I think S&S is about the perfect deployment program. Especially if you bring your current weight and the next weight. It allows for maintaining the things that need to be maintained, is low fatigue and won't be a liability, low equipment needs, and being an everyday type of program allows a person to miss days when they have to and not ruin a schedule of any kind.
 
Steve Rogers said:
So a couple more thoughts. I think we covered prepping for either a bootcamp or selection type event, and a little on deployment.

I want to drill down a little on deployments. As you know it’s kind of a constant physical/mental grind. You typically lose strength or endurance (I did at least). Lets say you do your base training and then peak for your deployment. What would you be doing during the deployment? It’s not a short month long or 3 month long selection. Do you maintain? I know S&S has been good. What if you don’t have kettlebells?
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I would run S&S or ROP, or run both maybe every other month for maintenance. Just a thought. Depends where you end up. If you have the ability to add 1-2 LSD periods in then go for it but that might be too much recovery when going on patrols. Job comes first so I would keep it simple.
 
I'd use routines from Convict Conditioning or various other bodyweight training sources (like Pavel's Naked Warrior book) if there weren't kettlebells available.
 
@Steve Rogers No kettlebells means you have to go old school. Ammo cans filled with dirt/sand for awkward swings, presses, caries. Sand bags for the same, 5 gallon water cans for odd lifts and carries. Body weight (Naked Warrior), step ups, skipping rope, etc..

If you have access to a KB or two, S&S, Q&D, ROP, or your own hybrid variations will generally take care of your needs. I personally used swings, clean and press, and basic body weight exercises with great success.

Plenty of options to stay relatively fit while deployed, imagination and the discipline to do it are the keys.
 
ShawnM said:
I would run S&S or ROP, or run both maybe every other month for maintenance. Just a thought. Depends where you end up. If you have the ability to add 1-2 LSD periods in then go for it but that might be too much recovery when going on patrols. Job comes first so I would keep it simple.
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Couldn’t you count your patrols as Long Slow and Distance? We had one patrol that started at midnight and lasted until 7 or 8 the next day.
 
If you're going into SOF, I would be shocked if you didn't have space in an ISU for kettlebells. I had an entire shelf to myself for personal gear, even more space for team gear, and the 8 of us had an entire C-17 to ourselves the whole way each time.
 
Steve Rogers said:
Their argument was: Why not train specifically all the time for selection or even after selection on a team for deployment? They argued that you didn’t have the luxury of a season. You could always be called up and therefore had to always be ready. My response was that in my past military experience I burned out physically trying to maintain a 100% workout philosophy and that I believed that would happen in a SOF unit or any unit.
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Several of us who are StrongFirst Certified Instructors had, not that long ago, a similar discussion about the 5-minute snatch test that's required for SFG certification. A number of people said an SFG should be able to pass the test at any time, while others disagreed.

In your case, the question becomes whether passing selection is sufficient preparation for what's to follow. I would argue here that the people who design the selection test would be the ones to answer that question, and I think their answer would likely be yes, that passing the selection test means you have what it takes to do the job that follows, otherwise they'd make the test different.

For our SFG discussion, the context was, of course, quite different. Not everyone who becomes an SFG needs to be able to pass the 5-minute snatch test for the life they'll return to after the cert weekend - some aren't even planning to be trainers or coaches and just attend the certification as a rite of passage, a challenge for themselves. But I think the point remains - the test is the test, and what comes after is what comes after. So, IMHO, you ought to work to pass the test. That accomplished, do what you need to do in terms of training to maintain a level of fitness appropriate to your job.

-S-
 
Steve Freides said:
A number of people said an SFG should be able to pass the test at any time, while others disagreed.
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I think a "qualified" person should be able to pass some sort of baseline like a pop quiz but not necessarily the final exam. I think CLEP exams are kind of like that, the passing score is based off of some performance average some time after successful completion of the course.

Perhaps there are two tiers of minimum scores for the same test depending on a base and peak performance standard. Perhaps for SFG it's 5min and 3min tests or just two different scores for the same time.

Perhaps for military it's a 90% score PFT for selection and an 80% score for operational.
 
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