Barbell Stronglifts 5x5 - Shoulder Press

[Deleted member 6651]

Hi,

I started the SL program with the barbell on empty (everything, squats etc) as it recommends.

All my exercises have gone up since the empty bar... shoulders I did my 2nd time today as I am in week 2... and I already failed the 22.5kg.

Is that normal for shoulders... like, how often should I expect for the 2.5kg to be added to the shoulders before I fail the 5 sets 5 reps...

My deadlift is at 50kg now, squats at 30kg now, bench press 27.5kg, barbell rows 37.5kg and Shoulders failed the 5x5 at 22.5kg (empty bar + 1.25kg ea side)

????

 

[adam80]

It's the lift that will usually stall first, so I'd say it's normal. One option could be to substitute the barbell press for a dumbbell arnold press.

 

[Carl in Dover]

Hello @G-man ....my suggetion would be to stay with the program and the 20kg bar only on your OHP until you have mastered it. Dont overdo it and become frustated or injured.
The gains will come!

Carl in Dover

 

[Anna C]

Take long rests between sets, and make sure your form is good... And don't forget to EAT (plenty of protein and a slight caloric surplus) to support the strength increases.

 

[Kyle Kowalczuk]

Small increments of weight on the shoulder press create more stress on that lift than on other lifts because of the muscle recruitment involved. Relative to the other lifts, the muscles for the shoulder press are smaller and have less mechanical advantage over the weight.

This is normal. Like @Anna C said, long rests and keep revisiting the weight you can move. Even if its only 2 or 3 sets. This way you can look to improve not with weight but with more sets.

Good luck!

 

[JeffC]

Press is the hardest to progress. Very normal.

Are you doing your chins/pullups and Dips?

Take longer rests as @Anna C said. Up to 5min between sets.

Keep adding weight until you can only get 5 x 3, take weight off the bar, and go back to 5 x 5, and work your way back up. If you can do smaller 1kg jumps you may get some more mileage out of your progression.

Maybe a few higher rep backoff sets or specific variety at lower intensity for volume and experience under the weight. Try adding some Incline Press, Dumbbell or Barbell, on Bench day with the same protocol.

Put as much effort and focus into your Pendlay Rows as your other lifts, Build a strong upper back to Press from.

 

[dnguyen411]

When I was doing the Stronglift program, yes, my overhead press was the first exercise that I failed to advance first compared to the other exercises. One thing I learn was to brace as hard as you can in your core area prior to unracking the weights. It may the heavier presses much easier.

 

[Deleted member 6651]

Thanks for feedback.

I just thought I would get to about 40-50kg before failure, not 22.5 (50lbs or so) so I was a bit "uhm" about it all. Might be going backwards and forwards for a while on this one before I finally succeed on the 22.5.

In terms of rest... I do the shoulder press... I sit down, my heart rate/breathing, pretty much goes back to normal after 1 minute. Is that rested enough, or is the 5min not just for my breathing but other things to rest as well?

And these rest periods... are they timed on stop watch, or you just sit down, and roughly estimate. (could be more could be less) ?

 

[Anna C]

In terms of rest... I do the shoulder press... I sit down, my heart rate/breathing, pretty much goes back to normal after 1 minute. Is that rested enough, or is the 5min not just for my breathing but other things to rest as well?

And these rest periods... are they timed on stop watch, or you just sit down, and roughly estimate. (could be more could be less) ?

The rest is to mostly restore the ATP in your muscles. It takes a few minutes -- longer than it takes for your heart rate and breathing to get back to normal.

You could try roughly estimating, but using a stopwatch would give you more data to use going forward. Make note of it in your training log and you might start to see trends of what works best for you. 5 minutes is a good default.

 

[Deleted member 6651]

The rest is to mostly restore the ATP in your muscles. It takes a few minutes -- longer than it takes for your heart rate and breathing to get back to normal.

You could try roughly estimating, but using a stopwatch would give you more data to use going forward. Make note of it in your training log and you might start to see trends of what works best for you. 5 minutes is a good default.

Thanks for that.

Should I wait 5min between every set on every exercise in the SL program?

I calculated that would be roughly 1 hour and 15min worth of resting and 15-20min for the exercises. So roughly 1.5 hours to finish. ?

 

[Kettlebelephant]

Should I wait 5min between every set on every exercise in the SL program?

I calculated that would be roughly 1 hour and 15min worth of resting and 15-20min for the exercises. So roughly 1.5 hours to finish. ?

3-5min of rest between sets.
In the beginning 3 is fine, but later on you need the 5min.

Yep those sessions can take a while, which is another reason why I can't understand why people go for SL.
Starting Strength will yield the same results as SL, but with only 3 sets of 5 won't take up so much of your time.

 

[Anna C]

+1 to @Kettlebelephant --- exactly. Even on Starting Strength, my sessions are taking 2 hours now. Here is my log from last week: https://www.strongfirst.com/community/threads/anna-c-training-log.5881/page-54#post-179299

I've switched from 3 sets of 5 to 5 sets of 3 on most exercises (an option often used for women partway through the program), so the rest between them is about 4-6 minutes. If I was doing 3x5 I would take 7-8 minutes. The sets are very hard and it's what I have to do to have the strength to do them. I know my rest is adequate if each set is about the same level of difficulty -- if it feels like each set is harder than the last, then I'm not resting enough.

You don't need that much rest in your warm-up sets, however.... just reload the bar and go again.

 

[Papa Georgio]

I've switched from 3 sets of 5 to 5 sets of 3 on most exercises (an option often used for women partway through the program), so the rest between them is about 4-6 minutes. If I was doing 3x5 I would take 7-8 minutes. The sets are very hard and it's what I have to do to have the strength to do them. I know my rest is adequate if each set is about the same level of difficulty -- if it feels like each set is harder than the last, then I'm not resting enough.

Anna, After a little while on the 5 sets of 3, have you tried backing off your best numbers on 3 sets of 5 and working those back up?

5 sets of 3 can turn grueling, especially if your doing them for more than one exercise.

It seems that a lot of trainers these days advocate keeping your strength workouts to less than an hour (45 minutes optimally) due to the elevated cortisol levels and other hormonal reactions.

 

[Anna C]

Anna, After a little while on the 5 sets of 3, have you tried backing off your best numbers on 3 sets of 5 and working those back up?

5 sets of 3 can turn grueling, especially if your doing them for more than one exercise.

It seems that a lot of trainers these days advocate keeping your strength workouts to less than an hour (45 minutes optimally) due to the elevated cortisol levels and other hormonal reactions.

Haven't tried that... Sounds like a reasonable idea, but I'm staying within the basic guidance and options within the program to give it the fairest trial and figure out how it works for me. I haven't seen that particular approach mentioned.

It's funny, even though with the warm-up sets and 5 workings sets on 3 exercises (so, last Friday was 24 sets total, and 79 reps total, including the warm-ups), it doesn't seem like that much volume to me. Maybe because I have spent several years doing kettlebell work with many more reps and sets than this.

I have not heard that about less than an hour and elevated cortisol. Seems like it would be more related to the exercises performed, not the time it takes to do them. And it seems that taking longer would actually raise cortisol less... sort of like the A+A/AGT practices advocate.

 

[Papa Georgio]

Haven't tried that... Sounds like a reasonable idea, but I'm staying within the basic guidance and options within the program to give it the fairest trial and figure out how it works for me. I haven't seen that particular approach mentioned.

If you have his book: Practical Programming, I think he talks about intermediate lifters need to make program changes for recovery. If you've stalled out on the beginner program and progressions, I think he'd consider you an intermediate. You probably already read through it. If not, check it out.

I see what you're saying about spreading out the volume shouldn't create more cortisol, but I don't know if it works the same way that the lactic stuff does. I'm sure if you did a google search you'd find as many advocates of short workouts as critics.

 

[Anna C]

If you have his book: Practical Programming, I think he talks about intermediate lifters need to make program changes for recovery.

Yes, I do have that... and that's about where I am - towards the end of the linear progression (at least with some of the lifts) and almost ready to move into intermediate programming. The options are somewhat overwhelming! One thing I'm trying to experience is really go all the way with linear progression so that I can feel and understand why it stops working. Too much stress? Not enough recovery? Repeated bout effect? etc.... there are many theories, but nothing beats actual experience, and I have this one chance to be in the midst of it so that I can coach others through it more effectively. It's a fascinating time!

 

[Deleted member 6651]

Well... I did my shoulders today and managed the 5x5. Happy with that.

I find deadlift/barbell row kinda strange to figure out. I dont feel any lower back pain, so I assume I'm doing it right...

Squat... you bend at knees and generally do exactly what it says, squat down.

Deadlift - I assume with this one you kinda push your bum out back further (rather than squatting down, like reaching for the wall) - which results in you going down (knees slightly bent) - point of this is you feel your hamstrings tighten... is that how deadlift is meant to be? Also you keep torso diagonal (kinda like a bottom of a squat position, more upright than horizontal)

Barbell row - Same as deadlift... uses the hamstrings... however... you first bend over and grab the bar, then slightly bend knees, which results in your bum being higher than a dead lift, torso is horizontal rather than more upright as it would be in deadlift... this results in bum being higher than the deadlift.

So essentially deadlift is more like a squat position but activating hamstrings rather than squatting down (done by pushing bum out more than squatting down) barbell row is bending over completely, then pushing bum out which results in it being higher position than deadlift.

Do I generally have the right idea?

 

[Antti]

I would really recommend you to get some professional coaching. If it's not possible, go lift at some gym for some time where there are some good lifters, and ask them for advice. Nothing beats in-person instruction. Really, nothing.

Then, there are great books, both with instructions and programming. And then we have great video resources in this time and age, and plenty of it is free on Youtube. Check out the Supertraining videos, for example.

Asking on a forum - especially this forum - is of course a good thing as well, but I think the options I listed would be a good way to get through the basics.

 

[User 7569]

Hello there,

when I ran stronglifts 5x5 ( more than six months each time) I seriously neglected my flexibility and mobility, which led to me stalling a lot in my lifts

please don't make the same mistake I did. the program doesn't really come with a flexibility/mobility routine so its easy to lose focus on those things

good luck

 

[Antti]

Hello there,

when I ran stronglifts 5x5 ( more than six months each time) I seriously neglected my flexibility and mobility, which led to me stalling a lot in my lifts

please don't make the same mistake I did. the program doesn't really come with a flexibility/mobility routine so its easy to lose focus on those things

good luck

How exactly did you neglect your flexibility and mobility, and stall in the lifts?

I've found that the lifts themselves are great mobility exercises. Like the back squat - nothing teaches me to squat as well as it, and nothing gives a greater flexibility and mobility for the squat than pause squats with a serious load and a long stretch in the hole.