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Bodyweight Structuring muscle-up practice in a workout

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JamesO

JamesO

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Hi everyone!

My current bodyweight goal is to do a strict muscle-up on the rings, and I could use some help getting there! I'd love to hear your ideas and thoughts regarding progressions and structuring them into my week. I've never worked on muscle-ups before, so I don't have a very strong library of progression and ideas for practicing them, but I've been enjoying it. I'll list all of my current goals below so you have some context for the way I'm structuring my week.

- Mon has a barbell squat and KB snatch focus with some swing technique and pull-up practice before squats. 5/3/1 for squats, and one of Geoff Neupert's snatch plans.

- Wed emphasizes pushing and pulling before snatching. I do TGU's and swing technique practice before doing supersets of false-grip pull-ups and ring dips. This is where I think I need the most help in structuring the muscle-up practice.
  • This past week I did five supersets of as many hollow-grip pull-ups as I could, briefly resting for a minute, then performing as many ring dips as possible.
  • I'm not pulling myself up high enough to practice transitioning to the dip yet. I pull my self up until my chin is around the top of the ring. I do a jumping muscle-up to get to the dips. Meaning I start in a false-grip pull-up position, jump up, transition, and find myself in a good dipping position.
- Fri is a rowing or weighted walking day.

- Sat is a weightlifting day following the classic Joe Mills 20/20 program. Clean and Jerk only.
  • Depends on how I'm feeling on either day.
Current goals
  • Barbell: 305 lb squat, 220 lb clean and jerk
  • Bodyweight: Strict muscle-up on the rings
  • Kettlebell/Conditioning: SFG snatch test
  • Achievement: Hiking Half Dome in July
 
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I've just got back into training a few weeks ago & I found a youtube vid from someone that goes by the name of Marcus Bondi who apparently holds a world record (or did at some stage) for muscle ups.


He advocates doing explosive reps of pullups aiming to get as high as you can on each rep early in your workout so you are still fresh. He also advocates going to failure on some of his vids, but I never did that I always keep a bit in the tank, It did make me try a bit harder sometimes though.

I tried doing that for a few weeks and started adding weight before I do my normal pullup work and then I did a full muscle up when I went to a local park the other day when I did an unweighted explosive bodyweight pullup. The muscle up was almost an accident, I was just trying to get as much height as possible and I surprised myself.

I don't have a pullup bar that I can do a muscle up on at home, I can get the bar to just below my pecs when I hit my head on the cieling, which I did by accident a few times that's why I started adding weight. It didn't take a great deal of weight either, I'm only adding 16 kg for a few reps, then 12 and then 8. Then I do my normal weighted pullup routine with HSPU's between each set.
 
I could do a muscle up (and still can) without ever training specifically for it. What got me there was strict tactical pull-up practice. Get strong at doing those, on a bar, and also on rings with a false grip (look up the false grip if you haven't already (when getting stronger at the false grip, I first had to lay a foundation of just hanging from the rings with a false grip before I could try pulling with it as it feels very weak and awkward at first)), and then when you attempt a muscle up on either apparatus you should just sail up and over.

The muscle up was my light bulb moment which taught me that you have to be strong first. Only then does doing the fancier stuff get easier.
 
Thanks, @Harry Westgate. I had a bonehead moment when I wrote, because I meant false-grip pull-ups but wrote hollow-grip. o_O I can do 15-17 tactical pull-ups, but don't exactly sail up and over the rings. That's why I'm interested in being a bit intentional about progressions.
 
Ahh not to worry @JamesO. My advice in that case would be to take time to get super-comfortable hanging from the rings with a false grip, especially with straight arms. My experience was that false gripping the rings with a bend at the elbows is one thing, but it gets far harder once you straighten out the arms. After getting strong at the pull-ups (and for what it's worth, I was at about 15 tactical pull-ups myself when I first nailed the muscle up), what it took for me was a couple of days (maybe just under a week) of GTG style practice hanging from the rings with a false grip. Then after that, I tried a false grip pull-up and in fact 'accidentally' found myself doing a muscle up; with the false grip nailed it was surprisingly easy to do the muscle up.

I should point out that all this was purely my individual experience. I'm not a trainer of any kind but just hope my experience might help you out. :)
 
MON and friday at the beggining, monday 10 min cap, reps every 2 min , friday devote 20 min work on negative , false grip - do dips and tranistion on rings with band . With ring muscle up the false grip is the key. Recommand : beastskills.com
 
Cool! Thanks, @taedoju. I've been mulling over the Gymnastic Bodies "Rings 1" course, but don't know if I want to invest in it for this.
 
JamesO said:
Cool! Thanks, @taedoju. I've been mulling over the Gymnastic Bodies "Rings 1" course, but don't know if I want to invest in it for this.
Click to expand...
That is a very advanced program, intended to be done once you have gone through their 4 Foundation programs. This means you reach the level where you can do flags, straddle planches, manna, hollow back presses, etc
 
That would be cool! Do you need any further info?

I started turning the rings out at the top of the pull-up Monday night. That seemed like a logical next step.
 
Number of strict false grip pull ups on rings you can do -
Number of strict paused on the bottom ring dips you can do -
If you ever done weighted pull ups - write the heaviest weight
---
If can't do any of those :
fals grip hang - time
Number of pull ups/chin ups
Number of dips on stationary station
 
JamesO said:
Hi everyone!

My current bodyweight goal is to do a strict muscle-up on the rings, and I could use some help getting there! I'd love to hear your ideas and thoughts regarding progressions and structuring them into my week. I've never worked on muscle-ups before, so I don't have a very strong library of progression and ideas for practicing them, but I've been enjoying it. I'll list all of my current goals below so you have some context for the way I'm structuring my week.

- Mon has a barbell squat and KB snatch focus with some swing technique and pull-up practice before squats. 5/3/1 for squats, and one of Geoff Neupert's snatch plans.

- Wed emphasizes pushing and pulling before snatching. I do TGU's and swing technique practice before doing supersets of false-grip pull-ups and ring dips. This is where I think I need the most help in structuring the muscle-up practice.
  • This past week I did five supersets of as many hollow-grip pull-ups as I could, briefly resting for a minute, then performing as many ring dips as possible.
  • I'm not pulling myself up high enough to practice transitioning to the dip yet. I pull my self up until my chin is around the top of the ring. I do a jumping muscle-up to get to the dips. Meaning I start in a false-grip pull-up position, jump up, transition, and find myself in a good dipping position.
- Fri is a rowing or weighted walking day.

- Sat is a weightlifting day following the classic Joe Mills 20/20 program. Clean and Jerk only.
  • Depends on how I'm feeling on either day.
Current goals
  • Barbell: 305 lb squat, 220 lb clean and jerk
  • Bodyweight: Strict muscle-up on the rings
  • Kettlebell/Conditioning: SFG snatch test
  • Achievement: Hiking Half Dome in July
Click to expand...
I like this programming split...Is it yours, out of curiousity? I like the oly barbell exercises but have become a double KB aficionado and am trying to reconicle my love for barbell squats, snatches and C&J with loaded carries, SFG snatch test and Neuperts double KB programming...It is proving difficult to figure...
 
Yes, it's mine. I think these hybrid programs (for lack of a better term) that incorporate kettlebells, bodyweight, and barbells are very interesting but also tricky to wrap the head around. It would be great to see a few blog articles that incorporate two or three of the modalities StrongFirst teaches from some of the more experienced coaches and thinkers.

This was my thought process. I have some experience with some good coaches, and I reflect on the programs they've had me do, but I don't have any formal education or training in programming myself. If you see something that sounds less that ideal, let me know, lol. There are a lot of awesome little things Ashley Hamilton throws into my wife's programs that are way over my head! For example, every now and then she has these banded walks that just seem amazing for saying hello to all the parts of the butt and thighs in a way the typical movements don't.

In my case, I thought about what I think a workout should have, and what I think I can handle consistently. I think a warm-up that weaves my body together, a big whole-body strength movement, and some conditioning is appropriate, and I want to approach them moderately.

For example, a few year ago I spent a month doing a Westside Barbell inspired program after talking with one of their coaches for a bit. It was cool, but it absolutely doesn't fit my needs or lifestyle now. 5/3/1 is moderate, self-perpetuating, and doesn't take a lot of thought to understand, so it makes perfect sense for the squats.

Weaving myself together with the warm-up is pretty important to me. I don't need a lot of joint prep, per say, but if I'm my body isn't ready to work, it's not going to generate very much tension, and I'm not going to move very well (proprioception).

Regarding the big strength movements, I hadn't done any back squats in a few years, and when I tried them, they hit my thighs completely differently than kettlebell squats. Since I'm weightlifting once a week, the back squat made the most sense. It involves the posterior chain, and I have a front squat pattern in the clean. I've never been too drawn to the deadlift, and I seem to get a lot of posterior chain through kettlebell ballistics and the back squat. So back squat it was.

For my upper body push/pull, I'd been alternating double kettlebell presses and single kettlebell presses. I got pull in the pull-ups. What I was doing for a few weeks was simply super-setting them. Then I realized I could turn it into more of a circuit and add some goblet squats, KB front squats, or rear leg elevated split squats as an accessory rather than a focus; a squatting movement, but less intense than the back squat or clean. My overhead presses, for whatever reason, tends to be strong relative to how much I put into it, so I started doing ring dips in late Feb because I enjoy them, they force me to use a lot of tension (which compliments everything else), and it's a type of pressing I hadn't done since early 2015. The snow ball kept rolling, and doing a muscle up started to seem like A) climbing Everest, and B) really effective. So that's that.

Regarding the weightlifting, Mills is similar to 5/3/1. It's moderate in terms of intensity. It's self-perpetuating. It isn't confusing. And it gives me a lot of practice with lower intensities, which helps in terms of getting the joints ready again, grooving the movement pattern, and developing confidence for getting into that 85+% range. IMO, clean and jerk gives the most bang for the buck between the two olympic lifts, and it's probably better for my shoulders since I'm KB snatching and dipping earlier in the week.

Regarding conditioning, I did a lot of snatching in our studio last year and next to zero swinging. My swing is my weak point, so I made the StrengthMatters Swing Test my goal. However, swinging/practicing was really hurting my back. I did some check-in's with a coach and treat the swing as technique practice for now instead of a performance task. I snatch well, so the snatch test is my performance goal. I was overemphasizing the lock-out on the swing, had a screwy back-swing, and I still have trouble keeping my toes planted. I really want to work through one of Geoff's complexes, but It's not going to happen while I'm squatting or weightlifting. The snatch program I was following is the "King Sized Killer." I do better with heavier than more/faster.

So that's how I cobbled it together.
 
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Thanks! I am going to look into Mills 20/20 for sure. I am trying to keep a steady supply of what I like and what I need to improve on the docket...Great stuff
 
@JamesO you do ;) i will put up a program for you here if you don't mind, but still i need your videos to pick up assistance drills:)
 
Break in week for @JamesO he is got a problem with tranistion and Proper body shape in MU- also he needs more pulling strength
Muscle up workout friday :
1. Muscle up tranistion with the band on the rings 4-5x3 reps
2. Ring pull ups 8x4( no false grip)
3. Ring support hold 5x10-15s/30s rest
4. Ring dip hold 4x5s/40s rest

Monday -
1. Weighted pull ups on bar 3x5+ 5kg plate
Then take weigth of and do 1x max reps
2. Ring negatives 3x5/ shot for 2-3 s Eccentric on dip / tranistion and pull

During other days - practice hand movement in Muscle up sitting on the ground /put therings in bands- attach to bar and just work with hands

Ab work to be done every second day :
Hollow position hold 4x15s/20s
Superman position hold 4x15/20s
That's first two weeks
On pullups you add 5pounds a week or half of that i will progres this as i See your progres and feedback
 
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