Bodyweight Structuring muscle-up practice in a workout
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Tarzan
Level 6 Valued Member
I was just watching the vid taedoju posted about the transitions for the muscle-up. If he used a clove hitch for that band he'd have a stable knot that won't slip & it would be easy to undo when he's finished.
I've just put the muscle-up into my bag of tricks. I can now do them consistently on a bar for 2 or 3 reps before they get too ugly. I still swing and kip to some degree though.
I've been using a normal pronated grip, but I'm guessing they'd be much harder on the rings. The false grip seems a lot like cheating for muscle-ups on a bar. The transition just flips over without too much effort .
How does a muscle-up on a bar with a normal grip compare to a real one the rings with an overhand grip?
I've just put the muscle-up into my bag of tricks. I can now do them consistently on a bar for 2 or 3 reps before they get too ugly. I still swing and kip to some degree though.
I've been using a normal pronated grip, but I'm guessing they'd be much harder on the rings. The false grip seems a lot like cheating for muscle-ups on a bar. The transition just flips over without too much effort .
How does a muscle-up on a bar with a normal grip compare to a real one the rings with an overhand grip?
taedoju
Level 3 Valued Member
well muscle ups are always done with that grip, its not cheating, 
rings are easier, cos you can move them anyway you want, point should be, not using the kick and momentum at all if we talk gymnastics the bar at first imo is easier, then on the rings its all about that false grip...
rings are easier, cos you can move them anyway you want, point should be, not using the kick and momentum at all if we talk gymnastics the bar at first imo is easier, then on the rings its all about that false grip...
305pelusa
Level 6 Valued Member
well muscle ups are always done with that grip, its not cheating,
Actually I don't think that's entirely true. Correct me if I'm wrong but Muscle ups can be done without a false grip on a bar. I've even seen people do slow Muscle ups without the false grip on the bar.
Similarly, they can be done without the False grip on the rings, if done explosively. Although I've never seen a slow ring MU without a false grip.
Regardless, they are a good bit easier on rings because you can transition with your chest between your hands. On a bar, you have to pull a good bit higher before you can start leaning forward.
Good thread!
Tarzan
Level 6 Valued Member
Yeah that's my goal for the muscle up, I imagine it will take me several months to pull it off.
This guy has it going on.
305pelusa
Level 6 Valued Member
Yeah, this kind of MU seems to require more triceps strength for the transition, rather than pulling strength. This kind of triceps training is actually very popular in street workout circles, where tiger bend dips and no-lean muscle-ups are preferred over stuff like One-arm Push-up for push development.
A particularly strong mo-fo that comes to mind is Vadym Oleynik. Especially at minute 0:33 (a no-lean MU transition hold) and 4:16 (tiger bend dip).
Though really hard and amazing skills (no false-grip MUs, no-lean MUs, etc), I'm not sure they're really worth the time. I also hear they're brutal on the elbows, so there's that too.
A particularly strong mo-fo that comes to mind is Vadym Oleynik. Especially at minute 0:33 (a no-lean MU transition hold) and 4:16 (tiger bend dip).
Though really hard and amazing skills (no false-grip MUs, no-lean MUs, etc), I'm not sure they're really worth the time. I also hear they're brutal on the elbows, so there's that too.
JamesO
Level 5 Valued Member
I think it's going well. The transition drill is great. I wasn't having a trouble over or under-shooting, just shooting to begin with, lol. I enjoy the weighted pull-ups, and the dips with a slow negative are challenging in a good way.
One question. On Weds, should I just keep on doing what I was doing?
One question. On Weds, should I just keep on doing what I was doing?
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
The transition is clearly the most difficult part of the muscle up (either on rings or on bar).
When you start the movement, your palms are facing each others. They turn (towards the "exterior") when they are at your armpit level. From this point, you do a dip (palms facing the floor).
Kind regards,
Pet'
The transition is clearly the most difficult part of the muscle up (either on rings or on bar).
When you start the movement, your palms are facing each others. They turn (towards the "exterior") when they are at your armpit level. From this point, you do a dip (palms facing the floor).
Kind regards,
Pet'
JamesO
Level 5 Valued Member
God help me, I'm posting a video of myself working out publicly. This is the stuff dreams are made of.
I've turned @taedoju's three week plan into a two month plan, but I wanted to be doing the weighted pull-ups and dip negatives strongly first. This was my third week doing the weighted pull-ups with 15 pounds without a missed rep, so I thought it was a good time to ask my wife to turn on the camera so Matt could see this transition. I usually have a nice hollow. I'm over-emphasizing it here to stop swinging so much.
On Wednesdays, my false-grip pull-ups have been very strong. I'm getting higher and higher on the rings.
I also really enjoyed watching the CrossFit California Regional Event 2 this weekend because it featured strict muscle-ups. If you skip to 3 hours 9 minutes, you'll see the guys in the final heat (but close your eyes for the kettlebell snatches).
I'm starting to think it's just that issue of pulling high enough to lean my chest forward and through.
Go easy on me.
I've turned @taedoju's three week plan into a two month plan, but I wanted to be doing the weighted pull-ups and dip negatives strongly first. This was my third week doing the weighted pull-ups with 15 pounds without a missed rep, so I thought it was a good time to ask my wife to turn on the camera so Matt could see this transition. I usually have a nice hollow. I'm over-emphasizing it here to stop swinging so much.
On Wednesdays, my false-grip pull-ups have been very strong. I'm getting higher and higher on the rings.
I also really enjoyed watching the CrossFit California Regional Event 2 this weekend because it featured strict muscle-ups. If you skip to 3 hours 9 minutes, you'll see the guys in the final heat (but close your eyes for the kettlebell snatches).
I'm starting to think it's just that issue of pulling high enough to lean my chest forward and through.
Go easy on me.
taedoju
Level 3 Valued Member
Good yourself stable
Tips :
Point your thumbs forwardon dips and Lean forward
On the tranistion from jumping muscle up - pull rings in to your body not out
And you are right, it is matter of learning to fall forward when you pull up body is / Lean back at TOP body is \
Have you filmed the version with bands?
Tips :
Point your thumbs forwardon dips and Lean forward
On the tranistion from jumping muscle up - pull rings in to your body not out
And you are right, it is matter of learning to fall forward
when you pull up body is / Lean back at TOP body is \Have you filmed the version with bands?
305pelusa
Level 6 Valued Member
One issue I see right now (maybe Taedoju sees it too) is that of your ring position. Right now, it looks like the palms are facing backwards, with the rings forming a straight line. What you want is for the rings to be parallel to one another, with your palms facing each other (as though you were doing dips on parallel bars, not on a horizontal bar). What's happening now is that because of that position, your elbows must drift away from your body. It probably feels a bit awkward on your shoulders too. But most importantly, you can't go very deep because of that (you'd fall backwards if you tried to dip deeper) so your upper arms are barely clearing parallel.
Ideally, you change the grip to what I mentioned above, so you can dip deep. Like, hands-an-inch-away-from-your-shoulders deep. That way, you'll build the strength you need to come out from the bottom of the transition.
This video is very good:
If you build a deep, strong dip, and a good false grip high pull-up, then the transition takes a bit of skill work, but not too bad. Also, what is the exact reason for using weighted pull-ups? Would it not make more sense to use unweighted pull-ups, so that you can pull that much higher (sternum level) and build strength on a larger ROM? Just curious
Ideally, you change the grip to what I mentioned above, so you can dip deep. Like, hands-an-inch-away-from-your-shoulders deep. That way, you'll build the strength you need to come out from the bottom of the transition.
This video is very good:
If you build a deep, strong dip, and a good false grip high pull-up, then the transition takes a bit of skill work, but not too bad. Also, what is the exact reason for using weighted pull-ups? Would it not make more sense to use unweighted pull-ups, so that you can pull that much higher (sternum level) and build strength on a larger ROM? Just curious
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
For the ones interested in muscle up practice, here are a tutorial from Al Kavadlo:
http://www.alkavadlo.com/body-weight-exercises/getting-your-first-muscle-up/
And below, a "strength oriented" bodyweight supersets. It would be possible to do OAOL PU and australian push ups instead of standard push ups and rows.
Bodyweight Supersets For Super Strength!
Kind regards,
Pet'
For the ones interested in muscle up practice, here are a tutorial from Al Kavadlo:
http://www.alkavadlo.com/body-weight-exercises/getting-your-first-muscle-up/
And below, a "strength oriented" bodyweight supersets. It would be possible to do OAOL PU and australian push ups instead of standard push ups and rows.
Bodyweight Supersets For Super Strength!
Kind regards,
Pet'
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
I keep doing some experiment with muscle up.
A good combination:
=> Start for a "L" position (arm straight)
=> Lift yourself (like an "L pull up")
=> Transition to dip keeping legs straight while controlling "rolling forward" speed (to ensure you do the move slowly and do not cheat)
=> Dip
=> "L" at the top position.
Sure gymnasts do far better stuff and could give ideas !
Kind regards,
Pet'
I keep doing some experiment with muscle up.
A good combination:
=> Start for a "L" position (arm straight)
=> Lift yourself (like an "L pull up")
=> Transition to dip keeping legs straight while controlling "rolling forward" speed (to ensure you do the move slowly and do not cheat)
=> Dip
=> "L" at the top position.
Sure gymnasts do far better stuff and could give ideas !
Kind regards,
Pet'
305pelusa
Level 6 Valued Member
Not surprisingly, these are usually known as "L Muscle-ups". Just dropping the name here in case you wanted to do a bit of research on them. They are a slightly harder variation, and useful to begin the long journey towards the wide-grip Ring Muscle-up (the big daddy of them all).
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
@305pelusa
Thank you ! I did not know the name
This wide grip interests me eh eh.
A question : grip is wider than usual from the beginning of the move (meaning start from a wide grip pull up) or do I have to make the grip wider once I get to the transition phase ?
Kind regards,
Pet'
@305pelusa
Thank you ! I did not know the name
This wide grip interests me eh eh.
A question : grip is wider than usual from the beginning of the move (meaning start from a wide grip pull up) or do I have to make the grip wider once I get to the transition phase ?
Kind regards,
Pet'
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