DuncanGB
Level 6 Valued Member
And yet, you have yet to read Q&D...
Other/Mixed Suggested programm or book for special forces
- Thread starter tobi
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Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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And yet, you have yet to read Q&D...
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
@mprevost
That is very kind of you to share this. So first off, thank you.
Performing Timeless Simple for a while made me drop a lot of weight, even if I was already pretty skinny (now, 1.83m for 59kg).
So I perfectly understand that your protocol aims at improving the tactical performance. But assuming I would eat on a slight calorie surplus, would it be appropriate as well to build 'functional muscle' (let say 65kg of lean mass) ?
Kind regards,
Pet'
@mprevost
That is very kind of you to share this. So first off, thank you.
Performing Timeless Simple for a while made me drop a lot of weight, even if I was already pretty skinny (now, 1.83m for 59kg).
So I perfectly understand that your protocol aims at improving the tactical performance. But assuming I would eat on a slight calorie surplus, would it be appropriate as well to build 'functional muscle' (let say 65kg of lean mass) ?
Kind regards,
Pet'
mprevost
Level 7 Valued Member
That was written several years ago. Probably 5+ years ago.
mprevost
Level 7 Valued Member
Simple metric to see if your increased mass or weight has improved your athletic performance, or hindered it. Standing long jump.
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
@mprevost
Thanks for your answer.
Usually, for someone of my height (1,83m), is there a 'weight range' which is some kind of compromise between strength / power / endurance ?
Indeed, being light is a advantage as far as pull up or push up (weighted or not) or running go, but it gets harder with heavy rucking.
Kind regards,
Pet'
@mprevost
Thanks for your answer.
Usually, for someone of my height (1,83m), is there a 'weight range' which is some kind of compromise between strength / power / endurance ?
Indeed, being light is a advantage as far as pull up or push up (weighted or not) or running go, but it gets harder with heavy rucking.
Kind regards,
Pet'
mprevost
Level 7 Valued Member
Interestingly, researchers have found almost no relationship between unloaded running ability and rucking performance. Where the optimal weight lies is probably a function of priorities. I handled these issues for the Navy Rescue Swimmer community by doing a job task analysis. We listed as many physically challenging job tasks as we could and scored each one on a scale of 1-10 for 1) frequency 2) difficulty 3) importance. Then we added up the scores. Those tasks that were done frequently, were most difficult and most importance had a higher composite score and were addressed with highest priority. It clarifies what you need to emphasize.
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
@mprevost
This is interesting !
I found this link.
What do you think of it overall ?
Indeed, even if he admits that height and weight are not necessarily crucial factors, they still can have a significant influence during some events such as swimming or rucking
Kind regards,
Pet'
@mprevost
This is interesting !
I found this link.
What do you think of it overall ?
Indeed, even if he admits that height and weight are not necessarily crucial factors, they still can have a significant influence during some events such as swimming or rucking
Kind regards,
Pet'
mprevost
Level 7 Valued Member
Hello,
@mprevost
This is interesting !
I found this link.
What do you think of it overall ?
Indeed, even if he admits that height and weight are not necessarily crucial factors, they still can have a significant influence during some events such as swimming or rucking
Kind regards,
Pet'
Stew Smith would know and I am sure his intuitions and the data he presents are a good starting point. Keep in mind though that getting through BUD/S and performing well as a SEAL are different things entirely. A SEAL once told me that getting through BUD/S is all about running, while being in the teams was all about strength training. I am not an expert on this stuff but I do know that selection is often different than day to day performance after selection.
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
@mprevost
Thanks !
As far as 'gpp' goes or even performing for the actual job (so I do not talk about selection), is there some kind of ratio or range you noticed ?
The reason I ask is because when I am heavier, I tend to perform better no matter the exercise (but i have always been light): carry, pull ups...
For instance we noticed that Crossfit guys are usually 10-15kg heavier than their 'cm' : 1.80m -> 90-95kg
Kind regards,
Pet'
@mprevost
Thanks !
As far as 'gpp' goes or even performing for the actual job (so I do not talk about selection), is there some kind of ratio or range you noticed ?
The reason I ask is because when I am heavier, I tend to perform better no matter the exercise (but i have always been light): carry, pull ups...
For instance we noticed that Crossfit guys are usually 10-15kg heavier than their 'cm' : 1.80m -> 90-95kg
Kind regards,
Pet'
mprevost
Level 7 Valued Member
Well, just general observations from the SEAL community. When I was running the survival training center, we had SEALs coming in for High Altitude Parachute Physiology training. Lots of them. What I noticed was that they came in various shapes and sizes. Other than nobody being fat, there was lots of variety. In other words, there was not a single physical prototype. I think this is a very individual thing. I knew guys who could run a 5 minute mile at 200lbs and skinny guys who could do 40 pullups.
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
@mprevost
Thank you for your input.
Almost the day after you poster your training plan, I have started it (with slight modifications but very inspired), just to see how it went. It seems to work fairly well until now !
Below is why I did this morning:
- MED & Pull ups *
- Pull up: 3 x 3r @20
- OA Swing: 10 x 10r @32
- 30 minutes of ladder of 3 (C&P @26- Pistol @8)
- Dragon flag: 1 x 4r
- Whole body mobility & flexibility
*Mininal Effective Dose: This is both my warm up and my daily health & strength indicator. If I can not pass, I am not "good": this is 1 OAOL PU, 1 pistol, 23 pull ups
In the evening at least 4 times a week, I ruck in the woods. Most of the time, I have to wave because I have to deal with my schedule. Yesterday evening, I was amazed that by 60kg bodyweight frame quite easily endured a 1h ruck with 32kg ! Of course, I do not know if I would be able to ruck as long and / or as fast someone more strongly built than me, but I was still quite glad.
Kind regards,
Pet'
@mprevost
Thank you for your input.
Almost the day after you poster your training plan, I have started it (with slight modifications but very inspired), just to see how it went. It seems to work fairly well until now !
Below is why I did this morning:
- MED & Pull ups *
- Pull up: 3 x 3r @20
- OA Swing: 10 x 10r @32
- 30 minutes of ladder of 3 (C&P @26- Pistol @8)
- Dragon flag: 1 x 4r
- Whole body mobility & flexibility
*Mininal Effective Dose: This is both my warm up and my daily health & strength indicator. If I can not pass, I am not "good": this is 1 OAOL PU, 1 pistol, 23 pull ups
In the evening at least 4 times a week, I ruck in the woods. Most of the time, I have to wave because I have to deal with my schedule. Yesterday evening, I was amazed that by 60kg bodyweight frame quite easily endured a 1h ruck with 32kg ! Of course, I do not know if I would be able to ruck as long and / or as fast someone more strongly built than me, but I was still quite glad.
Kind regards,
Pet'
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
@mprevost
Thanks ! Coming from you, provided your experience in the field these are kind words.
I would not necessarily say it is an active recovery, but I do not feel really tired or sore the day after. This is quite curious but great actually !
These multiple ruck in the woods clear my mind as well.
In fact, even if I use a good ruck sack which has a waist and torso belt, my shoulders (mostly the traps) are the first part of my body to 'hurt'. Of course to a certain extent it teaches how to endure tough things
Kind regards,
Pet'
@mprevost
Thanks ! Coming from you, provided your experience in the field these are kind words.
I would not necessarily say it is an active recovery, but I do not feel really tired or sore the day after. This is quite curious but great actually !
These multiple ruck in the woods clear my mind as well.
In fact, even if I use a good ruck sack which has a waist and torso belt, my shoulders (mostly the traps) are the first part of my body to 'hurt'. Of course to a certain extent it teaches how to endure tough things
Kind regards,
Pet'
guardian7
Level 6 Valued Member
Could you discuss a bit more about the lack of carryover between running performance and rucking . I don't understand that. Does the rucking interfere with the running gait pattern and add unwanted mass to distance runners? I know there is a literature on baseball players getting negative neurologically feedback from using weighted bats or pitchers using weighted balls or golfers weighting their swing pattern. However, I would think that loaded rucking like snatches (viking conditioning) were very effective in raising VO2 max and conditioning. I have also read that runners deadlift these days with no eccentric to strengthen to improve heel strike resilience. I am not in the field, just interested in this. I am reading "Endure" by Hutchinson and it is a good read. Maybe in a new thread as the OP has a very specific question in this one.
SteveR
Level 6 Valued Member
Great question. If I may throw out my amateur, n=1, 2 cents worth of opinion.
From reading @mprevost 's writings, my take is that he observes the biggest impact on rucking performance, outside of rucking, is strength vs "unloaded" running ability.
You are right in that obviously rucking can develop conditioning. I've seen nothing that would indicate Mike would disagree. He even includes a tempo run in a rucking prep workout.
When rucking, my level of conditioning is most noticeable on long up-hills under load. This is where I get "winded" as I would in running and the burn in the quads can get fierce.
Outside of repeated rucking up hills, what has made a very noticeable impact on my personal performance up those hills is working on quad strength in the gym. It's nice to feel the quads powering up a familiar hill more easily and consequently being a little less winded at the top.
I'm sure this is true, but I've never understood exactly why it is true. Does it actually take less energy to power up a hill if the legs are stronger? Or do the muscles just execute the task differently? Or recover better during and after the effort? Is it that there is more muscle fiber available to sustain the effort -- motor units rotation and such? Does it have something to do with fast vs. slow twitch? Interested in anyone's explanation...
SteveR
Level 6 Valued Member
My simplistic answer would be consistent with what I see a lot around Strong First content in that strength just makes everything easier.
My unscientific guess is that the real answer is leaning towards "all the above".
Repeating Bulgarian split squat workouts and rucking over several weeks probably benefited multiple factors that fed off each other and made everything start working together a little better.
Another effect I've noticed from getting stronger is more balance and stability over rough terrain which seems to boost confidence and focus, which in turn can also make a challenging hill a tad bit easier. Uphill and downhill.
Another good point. I would tend to attribute this to improvements in the force production capability of fast-twitch muscle fiber, both from muscle improvements directly and from neurological control of them. It's the exact reason that older adults should strength train -- it really helps with fall prevention and reaction time.
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