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Nutrition Supplements company rant

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I am a loyal guy. So when I find a supplement company or whatever I like I like to stick with it. It drives me nuts when my favorite company doesn't have a full line of what I like. Ie company A has supplement A I like. Company B has supplement B. And to get the best supplement C I need to buy from company C.
Or when it's a Canadian company made in Canada supplement and if you order from their website they rape you on shipping and charge you in American dollars. And their excuse is, well most of our clients are from America.
 
I buy protein powder about once per year and irregularly take even a multivitamin. I guess I’ve always decided that if I need a supplement, it should come from what I eat, unless I’m really going for high performance training (which I’m not).

So that’s how I avoid this issue...
 
I only take supplements now that have substantial literature behind them.
  • Multivitamin
  • Creatine
  • Fish Oil
  • Whey
  • Casein
  • Caffeine
I assume by substantial literature you mean many robust trials showing clinically significant effect? But I don't think there are good studies showing that for multivitamins (the only consensus being that you need to take the vitamin for which you actually have a deficiency).

Same with fish oil, although it is easy to see where marketing managed to fool people. There have been many really good studies showing clinically signficant therapeutic effect of fish oil in certain patient segments (like, patients with hypertriglyceridemia). So the obvious marketing push was to claim that fish oil prevents various heart conditions and improves "joint health" (whatever that is), although evidence for it is not convincing at all. So as with vitamins - if you do have a condition that requires intervention, then fish oil might be effective, if you don't, it is not likely to do anything.

Don't want this to be taken as a criticism. I used to take these at some point in my life as well under the impression that the scientific community agreed on the benefits of these specific supplements, but have eventually dug deeper and found the opposite to be true.

Right now I take only creatine for performance and caffeine for pleasure.
 
I assume by substantial literature you mean many robust trials showing clinically significant effect? But I don't think there are good studies showing that for multivitamins (the only consensus being that you need to take the vitamin for which you actually have a deficiency).

Same with fish oil, although it is easy to see where marketing managed to fool people. There have been many really good studies showing clinically signficant therapeutic effect of fish oil in certain patient segments (like, patients with hypertriglyceridemia). So the obvious marketing push was to claim that fish oil prevents various heart conditions and improves "joint health" (whatever that is), although evidence for it is not convincing at all. So as with vitamins - if you do have a condition that requires intervention, then fish oil might be effective, if you don't, it is not likely to do anything.

Don't want this to be taken as a criticism. I used to take these at some point in my life as well under the impression that the scientific community agreed on the benefits of these specific supplements, but have eventually dug deeper and found the opposite to be true.

Right now I take only creatine for performance and caffeine for pleasure.
I appreciate your reply. I mainly just follow the guidelines of renaissance periodization, who pride themselves on science and literature. I used to take tons of strange things that had a lot of promise but nothing really concrete.

I'm actually not even completely sold on supplementation because of the cost.......
 

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I am small, 68 kg or so, and I am 64 years old. I've noticed a few things over the last couple of decades or so:

1. I require less food than I used to.

2. All other things being equal, I'd swear that my body is less good at absorbing nutrition/nutrients from food than it was 20 or 30 years ago.

Given the above two things, I take some vitamins, fish oil, and the like, particularly potassium and magnesium, every day and it helps - I was getting muscle cramps until I added extra potassium to my diet.

-S-
 
I'd swear that my body is less good at absorbing nutrition/nutrients from food than it was 20 or 30 years ago.

Older Individual' Assimilation

As we age, we become less efficient with the assimilation of food, especially protein.

More protein is required for an older individuals to produce the same effect of a younger individuals.

mTOR (Mammalian Target of Rapamycin

mTOR is the anabolic trigger for muscle growth. It is triggered by...

1) Leucine, an Amino Acid. Research (Drs Layne Norton and Donald Layman) determined that approximately 2.5 gram or more of Leucine is needed for younger individual to activate mTOR.

Older individual need around 3.0 gram of Leucine to activate mTOR.

Percentage Leucine In Proteins

The percentage of Leucine varies dependent on the protein.

1) Whey Protein: Approximately 10% is Leucine

a) Younger Individuals: 25 gram of Whey would provide the 2.5 gram of Leucine needed.

b) Older Individuals: 30 gram of Whey would provide the 3.0 gram of Leucine needed.

2) Casein, Meats, Eggs, Milk, Cheese: Approximately 8% Leucine

a) Younger Individuals: 32 gram of the above would provide the 2.5 gram of Leucine needed.

b) Older Individuals: 38 gram of above would provide the 3.0 gram of Leucine needed.

3) Plant Based Proteins: Their Leucine content is roughly around 50% of meat and dairy; you need to double it.

The Link between Dietary Protein Intake, Skeletal Muscle Function and Health in Older Adults

"...Pulse feeding of protein increased postprandial amino acid bioavailability [59] and increased lean mass [60] compared to spreading protein intake throughout the day."

Protein Pulsing for Muscle | T Nation

..."Protein synthesis rates have been shown to decline with age so lifters over 40 may require larger doses to get the same bump in protein synthesis as their younger counterparts."

"...The solution is simple – just eat larger servings of protein!"

"From a timing perspective, you don't want solid food meals any closer together than every 4-5 hours."

The Refractory Period and Muscle Protein Synthesis

The dogma regarding eating every protein every three hours is incorrect and counter productive.

Research (Dr Layne Norton) found that consuming protein every 4 - 6 hours elicited the greatest Muscle Protein Synthesis, MPS. That means it triggers the greatest anabolic, muscle building effect for everyone, young and old alike.

Pulse Feeding Summary

1) Older individual's digestive systems are not as efficient as younger individual.

2) Research has determined that older individuals can obtain a similar protein anabolic effect to younger individuals by a consuming a larger amount of protein during meals that are spaced farther apart.

Younger individual need to space meals farther apart but don't require the same amount of protein to obtain the same anabolic effect.

3) The key to tripping the mTOR anabolic switch is to ingest the right amount of Leucine in the protein that you are consuming.

Different type of protein provide different percentages of Leucine. That needs to be taken into consideration when making your protein choices.

Spiking A Meal with Leucine or Branch Chain Amino Acids

Older individuals who find consuming a large amounts of protein difficult, such as 38 gram, with each meal can take some Leucine or Branch Chain Amino Acids with their meal. Research shows that works.

Final Thought

Exercise also turn mTOR on.

Kenny Croxdale
 
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To piggyback off what @kennycro@@aol.com, Prof. Stuart Philips from McMaster University School of Medicine is trying to get the Canadian government to increase the RDI of protein for the elderly 150%, from 0.8 grams/kg to 1.2 grams/kg. He seems to think that 0.8 grams/kg, while enough to maintain muscle mass in a younger, healthy adult, is totally inadequate to prevent sarcopenia as we age. Obviously, one would likely want to consume more than that if they had a higher than normal level of muscle mass or were trying to increase muscle mass.
I believe "elderly" was defined as 65.
I don't know what that has to do with supplements and shipping rates, but it's worth mentioning :p
 
So basically do what iron addict recommended in his modified warrior diet. Three to four protein pulses and a big meal at night.
I think that's the way I'm going back to. I'm currently have a bcaa and greens drink on the way home from work and a big meal at night (OMAD if you will), but I'm finding myself a little more beat up, tired, hungry, and craving junk. Maybe a little more protein is what the doctor ordered and will kick start me again.
 
In regards to BCAA supplementation:

BCAA and Leucine

Overall, he provides some good information. The promotion of BCAAs has led most to believe that ingesting BCAA alone preserves or increases muscle mass.

Adding to that is the fact that most individual are not willing to invest time in researching anything. Their education comes from someone that told them or some advertisement from one sentence.

With that in mind, let's breakdown some of the information in this video.

Leucine

Research (Dr's Layne Norton and Donald Layman) determined that Leucine is the "Anabolic Trigger, Muscle Building" amino acid.

Leucine is optimized when combined with Complete Proteins, rather than by itself.

One of the issues in consuming Complete Protein is...

1) Poor Complete Protein Choices: As the individual notes in the video, rarely will a Vegan be able to consume enough of a Complete Protein that yields enough Leucine to maintain, let along promote muscle growth.

Beans and Rice provide Complete Protein. However, you need to consume approximately 2 cup in one meal to get anywhere close to the amount of protein you need.

2) Quantity of Protein: Individuals who consume Quality Complete Protein often don't consume enough to obtain the right amount of Leucine.

See Post 7 for more information on this.

One Meal A Day

Dr Donald Layman's finding determined that out of three meals a day the majority of American only ingest enough protein with Leucine in one meal, dinner.

They don't consume enough quality protein at breakfast or lunch to maintain, let along increase muscle mass.

Training In A Fasted State

Muscle isn't going to fall off the bone if you train in a fasted state.

Research has demonstrated that muscle catabolism does not occur during fasting for up to 72 hours. However, the sweet spot for fasting appear to be between 16 to 24 hours.

Training in a fasted state utilized more body fat. Body fat is canabolized while preserving muscle mass. That due primarily to increase in the fat burning hormones; nor-epinephrine with the assistance of epinephrine, growth hormone, glucagon, and cortisol.

A quick word about cortisol.

Acute Cortisol, short term elevation, during training increases the fat burning process.

Chronic Cortisol, long term elevation, creates multitude of health issues.

The take home message is Acute is good and Chronic is bad.

The Caveat of Consuming BCAA;s or Leucine Alone

As referenced in post 7, "The Refractory Period" shows that Muscle Protein Synthesis is maximized when protein is consumed every 4 - 6 hours rather that the dogma of every 3 hours that continues to be perpetuated.

Based on Dr Layne Norton's research observation, it appear that ingesting Leucine or BCAA approximately 1.5 hour after an adequate protein meal and prior the the next meal can spike Muscle Protein Synthesis, promoting an anabolic effect.

Kenny Croxdale
 
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Lol, I had exactly the same principle, I always chose companies as well. I do sports, I had some digestive and stomach problems, I started taking different dietary supplements, creatine and protein for sports, vitamins b6, b12, d, a, zinc, magnesium and so on. I also take fish oil. The main thing is not to overdo it, otherwise you can get hypervitaminosis!
 
Hi, my name is Don and I'm a vitamin popper. I also wholesale 10,000 some products from 100''s of excellent companies, so the price is right. I like to experiment with supps, try something out, take notes, see if I notice a difference. Regular routine is pretty standard, bcaa,creatine,cod liver,D3,zinc,magnesium,C and B''s,potassium,digestive enzyme,various mushroom powders,glutamine,whey,CoQ10,ALA,NAC,collagen,hyaluronic acid,extra niacin and p-5-p.,Trace Mineral drops, calcium I make from egg shells. Once or twice a week and one week out of six I won't take any.

Intake is waved. Days I''m eating quality beef organs I will cut way back on most supps.
Forgot to add iodine drops.
 
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I take a daily multi vitamin and fish oil pill. Grocery store brand.

I buy Intek protein (cookies and cream) from a company called Jax Nutrition in Jacksonville Fl (I live in Delaware, lol). In theory I make a shake, daily. I havent been eating it, though. Instead, I fell in love with a pint of whole chocolate milk.

I also buy BCAA (mango flavor) from Jax. I blend this with orange gatoraide to sip on while working out.

I keep creatine as well. I only take it 8 to 10 weeks out from a powerlifting meet (which is once per year). I respond really well to creatine.

1 cup of coffee every morning for caffeine!

Eric
 
I take a daily multi vitamin and fish oil pill. Grocery store brand.

I buy Intek protein (cookies and cream) from a company called Jax Nutrition in Jacksonville Fl (I live in Delaware, lol). In theory I make a shake, daily. I havent been eating it, though. Instead, I fell in love with a pint of whole chocolate milk.

I also buy BCAA (mango flavor) from Jax. I blend this with orange gatoraide to sip on while working out.

I keep creatine as well. I only take it 8 to 10 weeks out from a powerlifting meet (which is once per year). I respond really well to creatine.

1 cup of coffee every morning for caffeine!

Eric

Have you been happy with the BCAA? Definitely looking for a new one. Orange gatorade sounds like it might taste funny with it tho! Is the BCAA all natural or does it have sucralose in it? Definitely want to keep things clean as I can.
 
Honestly, I'm not sure if it does anything for me. It's the 1 supplement I take In not sure about. Maybe I should stop taking it and see what happens. I started taking it as a recommendation from my coach.

I make it with water. The as I take sips, I top it off with orange gatoraide. Sometimes purple too. Yummy! But I've been known to eat and enjoy strange things!

I think it has sucralose.

Here is the link:

 
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