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Kettlebell Swing vs snatch practical experiences and what the hell effects, etc.

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rickyw

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Friends,

I am plotting my course towards my strength/conditioning goals. I am very close to owning the Simple goal. I am hoping to glean some info from those with experience who have polished both the one armed swing and the snatch:

-How would you compare the two in terms of the practical daily life benefits and what the hell effects?

-What would your answer be to the question, "why snatch for cardiovascular conditioning/fat loss when I can just swing a heavier bell?"

-What has your experience been with the snatch and injuries to the upper extremity?

-Any other nuggets of wisdom comparing the two exercises?

I have read the late strongfirst blog post on the snatch vs the swing. I have also read Max Shanks dragondoor blog post on swinging to improve the snatch. I am familiar with Steve Maxwell's take on the snatch and injury. I am hoping for your practical experience from your training or your training of others. For me, I am wondering if the snatch movement is worth the possible risk when one armed swings offer so much at a safer price. Thank you so much for your comments!
 
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My practical experience is that one arm swings are more challenging than snatches if I program them be, and visa versa.

My snatch is much better than my swing, so I tend to find them less challenging rep for rep, but any program with small rest periods or high volume per set is going to work me pretty thoroughly. I'm intentionally practicing my swing right now, doing "speed swings" ala Mark Reifkind (15 sec on, 15 off), starting at five minutes like S&S, adding one minute per week, but backing off a bit every third. I'm sure you can find some more info on how he programs these somewhere, or just check out his blog.

I pulled a muscle in my shoulder while snatching in early November. That was an isolated incident.

As far as snatching vs. heavy swings, I'd just try both and see what you can tell. They definitely feel different to me, and both in good ways.
 
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Hey,

From my experience:

=> the snatch is much more difficult for cardio (example: HIIT),
=> the snatch is more a 'vertical' movement (comparing to the swing which is more 'horizontal'). So it can be interesting for explosivity (if you practice basketball or kind of boxing),

BUT,
=> the snatch is more technical so it can be more 'dangerous' if you do it wrong (especially for joints...) (be careful with shoulders)

That way, for instance, if you want to make S&S more 'cardio', it can be a good idea to replace swings by snatch
Kind regards,

Pet'
 
My experience:
--The overhead support component of the snatch makes it a more "complete" movement, although this is not a big deal if you are also doing get ups and/or presses.
--The snatch has a (subjectively, to me) very satisfying completeness in that it has a defined endpoint (fixation in the lockout).
--The grip demand for the snatch is different and greater (greater impulse load, quicker loose/tight rhythm) than the swing. Contrary to many other people, I personally find that swinging heavier does not carry over that much to my snatch grip, but that snatching does have a lot of carryover to swinging a heavier bell.
--The snatch is harder on the skin of the hands and less tolerant of pushing ahead to get reps when fatigued or when a hot spot begins to develop. The snatch has less margin for error when conditions are hot and humid and sweat is a factor.
--The snatch has a greater mobility demand. If you don't have a good lockout position or have to use a lot of muscle tension to maintain the bell overhead, you will fatigue prematurely (or avoid a proper lockout/fixation in the first place).
--Snatch has a greater learning curve and more to potentially go wrong, but I don't consider it an inherently risky exercise when performed with good form. Good form just requires a little more time and practice to develop as compared to the swing. I have preexisting shoulder problems, including a torn rotator cuff that I am living with after failed surgery, but I can snatch just fine without any ill effects.
--Some common snatch problems I often see that might increase injury risk:
--Not taming the arc and allowing the bell to pull the arm backward at the lockout, instead of snatch straight up into the lockout position.
--Casting the bell forward on the drop so the arm is not connected to the body and the bell hangs out in front. This puts extra stress on the shoulder, grip and spine.
--Snatching too short, to a position in front and not fixating it overhead even momentarily (the so called "Heil Hitler" snatch). This often leads to the casting problem above, and negates the benefits of supporting the weight overhead.
--Overgripping, which can lead to skin damage.​
--Again, I don't consider the snatch a dangerous or risky exercise. I don't do full get ups because (due to preexisting injuries) they aggravate my shoulders on the supporting side, but snatches in high volume are no problem.

For me, I am wondering if the snatch movement is worth the possible risk when one armed swings offer so much at a safer price. Thank you so much for your comments!

Personally, I do not think of the snatch in terms of possible risk; for myself or any trainee with solid form, it is not a consideration in my programming decisions at all.
 
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@Steve W. covers it pretty well from a technical standpoint.

As far as Heavy Swings to better Snatches that is a YES for me. That being said it was programmed explosively and heavy (28/32kg to work on 24kg snatch)

That may be up the individual though. Also if you have a STRONG Press that helps a ton too!
 
The recent SF blog post details the differences. Now it's up to you to decide what your goals are. Decide if it's a fitness or health goal. Honestly though, how much "conditioning" does one actually need if not training for something sport related?

I feel that you should pick based on preference, unless you need to train for something specific. Like if your goal was to do a snatch test - then you need to train snatches.
 
Hi Rickyw,

I've done a lot of snatches and have never hurt myself doing them, barring the occasional torn callus but that doesn't count. Like any tried and true lift, I believe it's clear that injuries happen due to poor execution rather than the movement. When done as prescribed (as in appropriate load and volume), any legitimate lift is safe to do. I had a student tell me once that he was quitting the gym because kettlebells hurt his back. I kindly reminded him of the massive strength and body composition gains he'd made while he was with us and that the injury was from poor execution.

I enjoy the bar and I clean and snatch somewhat regularly, but not as often as I dead lift or squat. Similar to the reason I believe powerlifting is more practical than the Olympic lifts, swings are more practical because we rarely have to carry things over our head in everyday life. Certainly there are gains to be made via Oly, and that's why I do them but apples to apples, powerlifting is more practical, IMO. Likewise with snatching the bell, benefits definitely exist, but IMO the "risk to reward" ratio leans in the direction of swings.

I might be in the minority here but I prefer swings to snatches. Snatches are essential, especially if you want to get your SFG, but the lower body loading movement pattern is the same as the swing, and as you say you can just swing heavier.

I find WTH effects in just about every KB exercise I do, so for me there's not a lot of difference there.

Good question!
 
Just swing. Snatch is great exercise but for conditioning and power goals I feel they are equals. Swing don't destroy your hands, snatch will.
Even gs-guys destroy their palms sometimes so it's not how I snatch, it's a snatch. :)
 
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