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Kettlebell Swing weight/session progression question

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TedM

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In the revised S&S book (pp 61-65), Pavel discusses the step progression.

This is in the context of training 5 or 6 times a week.

I'm doing swings 3 times a week now - one day 2H and the others 1H.

The book recommends progressing 4 weeks per step - but again that's for 5 or 6 times a week.

The concern is about the "solidifying the gains" discussion on pp.80-83.

-> In order to gain the most benefit is it better to match the number of*sessions* or is *weeks* ok?

Again: I'm on my second week of 10 1H*24kg. Do I do 4 weeks before cutting over to starting with 2H*32? Or do I do 20 sessions - so 7 weeks?
 
In the revised S&S book (pp 61-65), Pavel discusses the step progression.

This is in the context of training 5 or 6 times a week.

I'm doing swings 3 times a week now - one day 2H and the others 1H.

The book recommends progressing 4 weeks per step - but again that's for 5 or 6 times a week.

The concern is about the "solidifying the gains" discussion on pp.80-83.

-> In order to gain the most benefit is it better to match the number of*sessions* or is *weeks* ok?

Again: I'm on my second week of 10 1H*24kg. Do I do 4 weeks before cutting over to starting with 2H*32? Or do I do 20 sessions - so 7 weeks?
From the chapter "Proven. Powerful. Perfected"

Screenshot_20221204-085201.jpg

Screenshot_20221204-085704.jpg

Once you own the current step load add weight.

When all your reps are reliable high caliber, quality reps, consider adding weight.
 
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In the revised S&S book (pp 61-65), Pavel discusses the step progression.

This is in the context of training 5 or 6 times a week.

I'm doing swings 3 times a week now - one day 2H and the others 1H.

The book recommends progressing 4 weeks per step - but again that's for 5 or 6 times a week.

The concern is about the "solidifying the gains" discussion on pp.80-83.

-> In order to gain the most benefit is it better to match the number of*sessions* or is *weeks* ok?

Again: I'm on my second week of 10 1H*24kg. Do I do 4 weeks before cutting over to starting with 2H*32? Or do I do 20 sessions - so 7 weeks?
I would suggest trying it (monthly progression) as long as you are getting at least 3 sessions in. If you notice the progression is too much, you can extend the progression. The jump from 24 to 32 is hard, so don't be discouraged if it is difficult to make the transition. There are plenty of strategies that can help, so if you get stuck or frustrated come back and folks can help!
 
Given you are using a lower frequency, one sure fire way to see if you're already dominating the weight you are using is if you're able to maintain 7 out of 10 on the volume knob for power for all sets..

Would you be kind enough to upload a video of your swings?
 
I recommend uploading a video here to get some tips, like Mark said, or to get with an SFG to work form. Then listen to your body for progression. You have less weekly volume, but you have more recovery as well. Jump weight when you feel like the last weight was getting easy. Then if it doesn’t feel like it’s time, move back down.
One thing you could try as well since you’re not getting the weekly volume, is to add reps on your 3 days. Say 120 SW and 12 GU. Just an idea.
 
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Thanks, Gents, for your comments and advice.

@Adachi - thanks for the quotes. I had missed those.

Would you be kind enough to upload a video of your swings?
Yes - I was thinking about doing that to my first thread, to add on to my initial efforts, but I'll do it here. on Monday.
(BTW, Mark - I still religiously do the Elephant walk you showed me about 6 months back...)
You have less weekly volume, but you have more recovery as well.
This is a better way to restate the basis for my initial question.

There are plenty of strategies that can help, so if you get stuck or frustrated come back and folks can help!
Thank you!
 
@Adachi - thanks for the quotes. I had missed those.
I am often startled at how often I'll go back to the book when I'm struggling and be reminded that there is already something addressing my concern.
 
I have progressed starting from 8 kg to current 24 kg 40sw/4gu 32 kg 60sw/6gu using step load every 24 sessions whether it has taken four (6 times/week) or more weeks. Next bell always felt very heavy but manageable, adding repetitions has been easier. I wonder what happens when it's time to move to 40 kg but so far I have been amazed by reliability of the process.
 
I have progressed starting from 8 kg to current 24 kg 40sw/4gu 32 kg 60sw/6gu using step load every 24 sessions whether it has taken four (6 times/week) or more weeks. Next bell always felt very heavy but manageable, adding repetitions has been easier. I wonder what happens when it's time to move to 40 kg but so far I have been amazed by reliability of the process.
Great! How long have you been at it now?
 
Great! How long have you been at it now?
I started June 2021. In June 2022 I got glute-related sciatica issue that stalled progress for 4 months, but I got it fixed by adding sled pulling and the the leg part from Al Kavadlo's Old Man Strength program. Now it's going fine again.
 
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Given you are using a lower frequency, one sure fire way to see if you're already dominating the weight you are using is if you're able to maintain 7 out of 10 on the volume knob for power for all sets..

Would you be kind enough to upload a video of your swings?

Here it is. In the interest of brevity, I combined 2H and both 1H into one short vid. I've never before actually tried to switch hands in midair, so my form suffered some. But that's how I look (and sound :( )
 
Here it is. In the interest of brevity, I combined 2H and both 1H into one short vid. I've never before actually tried to switch hands in midair, so my form suffered some. But that's how I look (and sound :( )
I think that a timing adjustment could be made.

Play chicken more with the bell, during the descent.
Experiment with keeping the plank longer after the top, and hinge a little later than before.

I do not advise this - but when I was learning the 16 kg swing - I was frustrated with learning to better time the swing. and before I used towel swings, I was paying attention to the idea of playing chicken with the bell. Again I do not advise this: I'm just making a point.
In order to learn the timing of how late to hinge, I did one rep at a time, as a drill, I would allow my forearms to hit my torso. I was trying to learn how long I could theoretically wait to hinge at the end of the down-swing. Luckily nothing was harmed as a result of this exercise, but I estimate that that was mostly luck; after feeling the oomph of my arms hitting me.

I think the towel swing does a good job of helping with timing. I just want you to imagine keeping that plank like a game of chicken and hinging at a later moment than you are in the video.

Some food for thought, maybe.


a drill to help improve the timing of the swing.


...

as to how you sound. - do not try to be quiet. be violent.
Do not shy away from the grunt.
Use it as a tool to express power.
1670252629647.png


Otherwise - I think you're heading in a good direction.
At the very least - your cadence seems good, relative to power expression.
1670252700119.png

Best wishes in your training.
 
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Play chicken more with the bell, during the descent.
Experiment with keeping the plank longer after the top, and hinge a little later than before.
This has been an issue for me from the get-go. It actually improved some when i first started with the 24 - the extra weight was "instructive".
What's the purpose of the towel swing? Is it to distance cast iron from soft tissue so you can let your forearms hit your torso without terminating the possibility of further progeny? Or is there another reason?
 
This has been an issue for me from the get-go. It actually improved some when i first started with the 24 - the extra weight was "instructive".
What's the purpose of the towel swing? Is it to distance cast iron from soft tissue so you can let your forearms hit your torso without terminating the possibility of further progeny? Or is there another reason?
Most people attribute learning the float at the top to the towel swing. keeping the towel straight in line with the kettlebell . a straight line between the shoulder and the bell, like a single rope, from the shoulder through to the end of the bell.

I try to use it to help cue me by a change in the direction of force very late in the swing, by still trying to keep it long and straight at the bottom. especially while trying to imagine that the bell went straight back like a hiked football.

maybe this is too fine a point to work on at this point. but part of coming through the hinge late is thinking "Straight Back!" as far as the trajectory of the bell is concerned. the idea that if the towel presents as a hinge point at the bottom, then I didn't drop my hips back fast enough.

and yes, I've had the displeasure of mildly checking myself while trying to explore the limits of how late to hinge. lucky me, I've had no lasting marks or injuries.

there is a concept in music called a pickup note. using a very late subdivided rhythm, and I try to use that to guide me now.
if a musical analogy can be drawn it sounds like

hike-up, float, float, float
downup, float, float, float
downup, float, float, float
downup, 2, 3, 4
downup, 2, 3, 4

This is the kind of rhythm I'm looking for if it makes sense ...

Stated differently - I try to make my hips hinge back - about as fast as my Swing up out of the bottom.
 
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Not S&S. I do my Swings in some kind of A+A and just progressed to the 32kg.
I did 10sets of real powerfull sets of 7 reps OTM.
When i progressed i did 5x5 with 32kg and longer rest.
 
I'd like you to try to swing with less power and focus on timing the hinge.. really wait until your upper arm connects to your body before you break at the hip
 
Standing plank!

Master the standing plank by practicing kettlebell deadlifts, incorporate it to your swings, and you'll be doing great.

1670609930251.png
 
Most people attribute learning the float at the top to the towel swing. keeping the towel straight in line with the kettlebell . a straight line between the shoulder and the bell, like a single rope, from the shoulder through to the end of the bell.

I try to use it to help cue me by a change in the direction of force very late in the swing, by still trying to keep it long and straight at the bottom. especially while trying to imagine that the bell went straight back like a hiked football.

maybe this is too fine a point to work on at this point. but part of coming through the hinge late is thinking "Straight Back!" as far as the trajectory of the bell is concerned. the idea that if the towel presents as a hinge point at the bottom, then I didn't drop my hips back fast enough.

and yes, I've had the displeasure of mildly checking myself while trying to explore the limits of how late to hinge. lucky me, I've had no lasting marks or injuries.

there is a concept in music called a pickup note. using a very late subdivided rhythm, and I try to use that to guide me now.
if a musical analogy can be drawn it sounds like

hike-up, float, float, float
downup, float, float, float
downup, float, float, float
downup, 2, 3, 4
downup, 2, 3, 4

This is the kind of rhythm I'm looking for if it makes sense ...

Stated differently - I try to make my hips hinge back - about as fast as my Swing up out of the bottom.
Have you ever had a session with a SFG?
 
Standing plank!

Master the standing plank by practicing kettlebell deadlifts, incorporate it to your swings, and you'll be doing great.

View attachment 19961
This is quite doable for me. When I first started trying to move a KB I was just doing DLs to get used to the movement.

Back then (7 months ago) as a total strength noob I really couldn't plank... Now that's changed for the better.

I'm kinda despairing about the timing thing for hinging. I've tried in the past all the excellent advice you've all given me. But I've not been able to overcome it on my own.

I'll be in the States in Jan with more schedule flexibility. Hope to find a SFG in the part of NJ I'll be in (Lakewood), or in Baltimore.

Perhaps a session or two of training would provide the breakthrough I need.
 
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