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Other/Mixed Swings and Crawls - The 'true' program minimum?

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
The article is interesting, but I find his position that loading crawling defeats the purpose of it to be gratuitous assertion, and his argument in favor of the TGU depends upon it.

He also doesn't discuss crawling progressions toward some of the harder variations referenced by 3letterslong.
 
Fair point that the benefit of tgu is lthe loading aspect whilst omitting the loading potential and progressive nature of crawling variations.
Yeah well do both then.

I do a combo of get ups and between each one incorporate a bit of crawling but it's mixed....crawl, crab walks, duck walks etc.
I prefer get ups at the moment for movement variation rather than loaded to heavy progression. Never done loaded crawling to have any insight into pros and cons of it. The thing is though the intensity is low and the discussion about using swings plus one or the other in a program is somewhat different, isn't it?

You're using a bell for swings and get ups and the loading parameters can be measured and progressed.
With crawling plus swings, after the swings build to do 10 minutes of crawling or whatever a reasonable marker should or ought to be, then progress with more time or a harder crawling variation?

None of this is an issue really but for simplicity the get up gets the nod, on balance, no?

Of course, swing, get up, press, snatch, squat, crawl, run and sprint....but that's more a programme maximum!
 
duck walks etc.

Overhead squat / snatch grip duck walks using a barbell have become part of my regular warm up on snatch days.

They were pretty tough at first, but I was surprised at how quickly adaptation occurred.

And they definitely improve the speed and depth of my 3rd pull on the snatch.

But they're definitely not packing on the meat, nor improving my "raw strength" -- they don't make my squat or pulls go up.
 
Not sure you'd want to load duck walks. Quite a load on the ankles and knees in terms of the leverage and position.
Used to do them years ago with youth on my side as S&C for martial arts, then bunny hops before 5 minute wall sits with the coach chucking a medicine ball at your abs.
Seems like a fever dream now!
 
Not sure you'd want to load duck walks. Quite a load on the ankles and knees in terms of the leverage and position.
Used to do them years ago with youth on my side as S&C for martial arts, then bunny hops before 5 minute wall sits with the coach chucking a medicine ball at your abs.
Seems like a fever dream now!

Does 20 kg count as loaded or unloaded? ;)
 
The article is interesting, but I find his position that loading crawling defeats the purpose of it to be gratuitous assertion ...

I think that's being a bit harsh on the author. He feels that the best place to load things is when we're vertical or at least when we're moving between horizontal and vertical. That's an OK opinion to have, IMO.

Something I've mentioned here in the past, this time _my_ opinion, is that while we need to be able to move in multiple ways, none of us need to load all of them - one can become plenty strong for most purposes by loading a few, well-chosen movements/patterns and just making sure you can do the rest of them unloaded. That, to me, seems Brandon's argument, that we crawl unloaded and we don't want to lose that ability, but there are better choices for most people in terms of adding load. Again, IMO, it's a reasoned and reasonable approach to take.

TL;DR

I've watched Ed Coan talk about how he tried to strengthen everything he could, and for someone whose career is competitive powerlifting, sure, I think that makes sense. But then there are the rest of us. E.g., I happen to be so busy with my work and family life at the moment that I'm having a tough time fitting in even my relatively minimalist training. I can say with some certainty that, for myself, putting something heavy overhead with one arm, paired with picking up something heavy from the ground with two hands, and both while standing, has done wonders for me and is pretty much all I need.

There's a Bruce Lee quote about not fearing the person who's practiced 10 different kicks 1000 times each but fearing the person who's practiced 1 kick 10,000 times that also resonates with me in this conversation. Loading every basic human movement pattern is, for me, like practicing 10 different kicks instead of 1. Sure, it's more complete, but is that sort of more complete actually better? And in the context of the lives of busy adults who aren't bodybuilders or competitive strength athletes? Personally, I don't think it is.

JMO, YMMV.

-S-
 
do a combo of get ups and between each one incorporate a bit of crawling but it's mixed....crawl, crab walks, duck walks etc.
I prefer get ups at the moment for movement variation rather than loaded to heavy progression. Never done loaded crawling to have any insight into pros and cons of it. The thing is though the intensity is low and the discussion about using swings plus one or the other in a program is somewhat different, isn't it?

You're using a bell for swings and get ups and the loading parameters can be measured and progressed.
With crawling plus swings, after the swings build to do 10 minutes of crawling or whatever a reasonable marker should or ought to be, then progress with more time or a harder crawling variation?

None of this is an issue really but for simplicity the get up gets the nod, on balance, no?

Of course, swing, get up, press, snatch, squat, crawl, run and sprint....but that's more a programme maximum!
I think loading parameters are simpler at first glance when looking at lifting iron. I also think that if one chooses to load a locomotive pattern (crawling in this case) they can do so in a measureable way if they are thougtful about it. It's simple enough to load a crawl by dragging something of a known weight or wearing a weight vest or placing bands around wrists, etc. All those things are measurable. To quantify volume, imo, it's much easier to count steps back/forth than use a timer.

If you wanted to get stronger with crawls, then my thought is to keep the steps/paces locked (e.g. ten forward, ten back or something) and then add more resistance (whichever you so choose) over time. A heavy crawl for ten paces back and forth can be quite challenging.

If you want endurance with crawls, then to me the obvious choice is just doing time intervals.

Something I've mentioned here in the past, this time _my_ opinion, is that while we need to be able to move in multiple ways, none of us need to load all of them - one can become plenty strong for most purposes by loading a few, well-chosen movements/patterns and just making sure you can do the rest of them unloaded.
I've often thought that one possible way to train would be to heavily load a few movments at lower overall volume (e.g. 2-3 sets of 2-3 exercises, 2-3 times a week, give or take) and then train a LOT of lower intensity, cooridination and mobility focused movement (jogging, crawling, tai chi, yoga, etc).

Re "getups vs crawling," why does it have to be "which is better?" I think the ability to move oneself through space is just as important as moving external objects through space. Crawling is closed chain and getups are open chain (at least regarding the shoulder supporting the bell), so arguing that one is "better" than the other doesn't make much sense to me. That would be like saying that pushups are worthless just because you can press a barbell. We need and use both open and closed-chain patterns in day to day life to be "well rounded," imo. I know I have met people who were barbell strong but were totally destroyed by calisthenics, and I've also met people who could do crazy bodyweight stuff who got wrecked using weights.
 
but there are better choices for most people in terms of adding load. Again, IMO, it's a reasoned and reasonable approach to take.

Indeed.

Our spine, core and hips are designed to best carry a heavy load from vertical orientation.

Not a horizontal one, like a quadraped.
 
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but there are better choices for most people in terms of adding load. Again, IMO, it's a reasoned and reasonable approach to take.

Indeed.

Our spine, core and hips are designed to best carry a heavy load from vertical orientation.

Not a horizontal one, like a quadraped.

I think the two of you are picturing people adding weight to their bodies, like a weighted vest. People who specialize in crawling work (like Tim Anderson) specifically warn against this. The two most common ways he loads crawls are to go backwards up steep inclines and to drag or pull heavy objects as you crawl. And I can't swear on it, but I'm pretty sure I remember Geoff Neupert writing the same thing in one of his crawling articles.
 
Here's a little crawling story. I'm currently dogsitting for an elderly woman. She loves this dog, but doesn't know how to take care of it and sometimes can't take care of it (no car). His diet is 90% cooked chicken and he is a fat doggo. I've taken him to the vet to get a bunch of issues sorted out and now that he's on arthritis medication he can run around and play again.

Let me just say that his energetic chicken farts are wreaking havoc on my crawling workouts.
 
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