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Kettlebell Swings and hernias

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StuKE

Level 4 Valued Member
Apologies if thus has already been discussed, I did a quick search but did not see anything.
I had a double hernia surgery around 15 years ago. Since then I have done some heavy lifts ni problem, though as anyone who has had hernia surgery will probably agree, you never get rid if the odd pain, tweak etc sometimes after lifting, others after cycling and sometimes just here and there, but I have read this is pretty usual. I was meshed by a surgeon who used to lift weights and he said you can do what you want exercise wise after a few weeks. I had an inguinal and incisional hernia, neither caused by lifting weights.
I have read a lot about kb swings, have even given them a go and liked them, but they definitely lead to some pain, so I stopped. My gut (no pun intended) tells me to stay clear, for me they are exactly what I should not be doing - thrusting my hips forward seems counter intuitive considering my past surgery. The problem with meshed hernias is, if you do manage to damage it, surgeons are very wary about trying to fix it as the body integrates with the meah and it is very difficult to do anything.
So I just wondered if anyone else has experience or thought about this?
 
@StuKE, you have seen a doctor who has given you permission to do kettlebell swings, yet kettlebell swings cause you pain.

Step 1) Stop swinging until you have seen your doctor again and are sure you haven't caused any damage, then work with a competent instructor, and I strongly recommend one of ours.

One possibility is that, because of your repaired injury, you will have a smaller margin of error in your swing performance than others. You ask if anyone else has experience with this - yes, I had both a severe herniated disc and a double inguinal hernia but it hasn't stopped me from performing kettlebell swings or barbell deadlifts.

Those "odd pains" stopped once I started doing strength training the StrongFirst way - I used to have them.

Step 2) Strong abs are indispensable in keeping a less-than-perfect middle of your body working. You might consider doing some direct ab work, perhaps even making it your focus for a few weeks before trying the swing again.

Step 3) Consider working on the barbell deadlift instead of the kettlebell swing. It is easier to manage your body when moving it's slowly than when it's moving quickly.

You will notice in S&S that the kettlebell deadlift is taught before the swing. When I am training someone with a bad back, I prefer to go further with the deadlift before starting the swinging, usually introducing the barbell and making sure my student can pick up something quite a bit heavier than a kettlebell in good form. Your description of your hernia issues makes me think that same course of action might work for you, but again, quality instruction and tremendous attention to detail are required.

Step 4) Don't "thrust your hips forward." Drive your heels hard into the ground, keep pushing them into the ground, and stand up straight.

-S-
 
That's an amazing response, Steve. I know we've come to expect that from you, but it's still very much appreciated! There's about 10 tons of gold advice right there in that one post.
 
StuKE
In addition to what Steve said
I have had three abdominal surgeries with the last being a ventral hernia repair with a large bit of mesh and tacks every 1/2 CM etc... and I swing etc... without issues.

While every drill is not meant for every person I would investigate some coaching for your form and movement before eliminating the swing from your menu. JMO

Obviously you are correct to stop for now when it doesn't "feel right" etc...
 
That's an amazing response, Steve. I know we've come to expect that from you, but it's still very much appreciated! There's about 10 tons of gold advice right there in that one post.
@Anna C, you are much too kind - and a much-valued contributor here yourself, too!

@Brett Jones, for me, there was a fear factor in moving quickly after I hurt my back. My situation felt fragile and, indeed, it was. I could put my back out by sneezing back then. I found value in learning slower movements because I didn't worry as much about putting my back out, this because I felt I could better control slower movements.

I have no idea how universal or not my experience might be in this regard.

-S-
 
Some very thoughtful advice there, many thanks. Over the years Since surgery, I have worked hard on many exercises, including deadlifts and direct ab work, and as in all my training life, I have been careful to use good technique. There are people out there who will not touch deadlifts etc since having hernia OP's, whether it is a year since, or 10 years. They consider these exercises very risky. But me personally, if I can do so many exercises without any real problem, what is the big deal about kg swings, why don't I just stay clear? Well that is the thing- despite decades of training and a little competitive powerlifting way back, I hear intersting things about kettlebell swings, Turkish Get Ups and so on, particularly about building real strength and protection in the back, hips and abs (I refuse to use the term core, it did not exist until faulty recently, now everyone talks about their 'core' hahaha). Steve, you are a great example, you talk of pains like mine disappearing - which has me intrigued, after all, nobody else talks like this with other methods. People who turn to KBs consistently state that they feel younger, more supple, stronger and so on. So yes, it is worth me looking into alright!
You have probably gathered from some of my previous posts that I have one or two issues physically - not that I feel too worried, after all, you can expect some aches, pains and so on after lifting heavy since you were 13.... But I do not have much faith in the NHS for things like sports injuries, aches and pains and so on,. Great for OP's and all sorts of things, but in my experience, doctors are. It too interested in things like intermittent aches and pains following some heavy lifting around an old hernia site,. Even if hey are interested, we are talking about referrals and waiting lists and many others I know never seem to get anywhere with sports injury issues.... Honestly, if I go see my GP, I do not expect to get any answers for many , many months - if at all.
Sound like I am giving up before I try? Maybe - maybe not, but I am still interested in Improving.
After many years of shunning gyms (at least the last 8 years of my training) and instead working out in my garage, I am a little institutionalised and need to look into a competent instructor as you say - it seems these days everybody is a 'personal trainer' around here, but I would feel fully confident in a SF instructor.
Much to think about! Thanks again!
 
@StuKE,

I and others here off long-distance training via Skype and similar, as well as using email, video review, telephone, and the like. If you don't find someone local, consider someone from the forum.

-S-
 
I've had two inguinal hernias repaired. I have had pain on my right side after squats to the point that I thought I had damaged the repair a few years ago. I finally went to two surgeons because I wanted to be certain of what they were telling me. I was told the second repair had affected a nerve (I don't remember details it was years ago now) and that the abdominal pressure was aggravating the nerve. I was told they could do an in office procedure to severe the nerve (that was my simpleton understanding) or try injections to numb it, but there was no actual injury. I decided that if if was only discomfort and no injury I'd deal with it. I very rarely have the discomfort now several years later.

My point, maybe go in for some follow up with a surgeon.

Take care.
 
Mine are hereditary. My father's father, my father, me, and both my sons all had them. Me and both my boys had surgery at a young age, 3 years old or so. I had some discomfort until I started lifting; my boys have both completely forgotten they ever had the surgery, I think - never hear them mention it.

-S-
 
One of my sons has an umbilical hernia, that the Doctor is not concerned about and says it is "normal". It is as big as my thumb.

I have been wondering does make him more prone to a hernia later in life? I have never had a hernia, and my other does not have one.
 
Peck88
Just because a few folks (myself included) have had hernia surgeries I don't think it is "common" among the fitness profession
there were 2.3 million hernia repairs between 2001 and 2010
Trends in emergent hernia repair in the United States. - PubMed - NCBI

And about 75-80% of hernias are inguinal or femoral
Hernia: Types, Symptoms, Causes, & More | Cleveland Clinic

Inguinal are typically congenital weakening of the abdominal wall for males where the testes drop through early in life and sometimes they result in a hernia (Like my left inguinal hernia)
My ventral hernia was a result of an appendectomy scar that didn't heal back well (2% of hernias...so I was one of the "lucky" ones...)

hernias happen

Geoff
check the Cleveland Clinic article - a bit of info there on the umbilical hernia for infants
 
One of my sons has an umbilical hernia, that the Doctor is not concerned about and says it is "normal". It is as big as my thumb.

I have been wondering does make him more prone to a hernia later in life? I have never had a hernia, and my other does not have one.
How old is your son @Geoff Chafe? I think they don't like to do the surgery before age 3 or 4 or so. Perhaps a question for your doctor ....

-S-
 
@Steve Freides He is 3 months. They said if it becomes stuck they have to fix it. If it becomes red or bruised, and you cannot push it in. When he cries and it pushes out it is very concerning. We have seen three different doctors and they say the same thing. It may or may not fix itself
 
I went camping with the boys last Fall, 3 out of 5 had hernia reapir, two of us had bilateral. Its real common, none of the other guys are that hard into training.
 
@Geoff Chafe , my little girl has the same and is slowly going away. Doctors say the same thing. She is 3.5 month old also. Hopefully your son's will go away by itself also.
 
The doctor who will be doing my inguinal hernia repair stated during my consultation that the overwhelming majority of inguinal hernias are present from birth and that there was nothing I did to cause it.
 
At the risk of reopening old wounds (bad pun intended) I had my inguinal hernia repaired three weeks ago. The surgeon apparently was very skilled because I have had precious little discomfort save for a grumpy nerve that he assured me would settle down. He insisted that I walk steps and just walk in general the day of the surgery and after doing so I was fine. My main frustration is that he insists that I refrain from bodyweight moves like squats and push-ups for six weeks and to limit my lifting to weights that I can perform for at least twenty reps. He's a former military surgeon so he's not one to baby people. I guess patience is something we learn from training so I suppose that I can at least exercise that.
 
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