Kettlebell Swings only for general fitness

[watchnerd]

note to self. not the worst idea.

But if you're going to do 30-45 minutes of LISS, I'm not sure swinging is the best tool for the job.

I know I can't come close to continuously swinging for 30 minutes straight without crossing the lactate threshold, which means you're getting out of Zone 2.

One might argue that this is a conditioning or pacing issue, and it might be, but I can row continuously for 30 minutes, which is also pulsatile, without the same issue.

 

[Don Fairbanks]

But if you're going to do 30-45 minutes of LISS, I'm not sure swinging is the best tool for the job.

I know I can't come close to continuously swinging for 30 minutes straight without crossing the lactate threshold, which means you're getting out of Zone 2.

One might argue that this is a conditioning issue, and it might be, but I can row continuously for 30 minutes, which is also pulsatile, without the same issue.

You could pull it off if motivated. HR climbs too much ,set bell down. Resume when appropriate.

 

[watchnerd]

You could pull it off if motivated. HR climbs too much ,set bell down. Resume when appropriate.

Might also need to change swing style from hard style to GS-style.

 

[watchnerd]

You could pull it off if motivated. HR climbs too much ,set bell down. Resume when appropriate.

The other challenge with that is that it's not as brain-dead as other LISS modes.

You can mentally zone out with some forms of LISS, which might be part of the health benefits.

 

[Adachi]

But if you're going to do 30-45 minutes of LISS, I'm not sure swinging is the best tool for the job.

I know I can't come close to continuously swinging for 30 minutes straight without crossing the lactate threshold, which means you're getting out of Zone 2.

One might argue that this is a conditioning issue, and it might be, but I can row continuously for 30 minutes, which is also pulsatile, without the same issue.

I guess there's a question about whether it's good enough.
I've been able to sample some light snatching (snatch walking 16kg actually gets me huffing and puffing pretty quickly).
I've been able to sample some single heavy reps, that are spaced close enough to elicit a relatively steady elevated heart rate. (Clean+press+squat 32kg- or Long Cycle 40kg)
I guess - what I actually haven't tried is using swings.

my experience tells me that if there is one, the cardio effect is non-zero and can help with some of those attributes.
to what extent?
I don't imagine it'll help me much with a marathon pace.
but, one of my favorite tests- the kid carry, has been positively augmented by these (substitute-cardio) moves.
swings - for whatever reason is something that I haven't tinkered with - but is obviously an option for cardio substitutes- vis a vis: Strong endurance.

I may try and incorporate some swing training.
e.g. : light cardio for me would be the 24kg - sets of 10 - performed frequently enough to keep the heart pumping.
Goal for the session would be time - not reps. 20 - 40 minutes on the timer would suffice.
a heart rate monitor would make that range of timing the sets easier to control.

 

[Don Fairbanks]

The other challenge with that is that it's not as brain-dead as other LISS modes.

You can mentally zone out with some forms of LISS, which might be part of the health benefits.

Not saying I'm going to recommend it to clients for their off day, but maybe a minimalist low equipment holiday/vacation/traveling thing. Although, first thought would be SA / IC.

 

[watchnerd]

my experience tells me that if there is one, the cardio effect is non-zero and can help with some of those attributes.

Defining the attributes in question is part of the exercise.

Inigo Millan focuses his work on mitochondrial adaptation; his work seems to suggest short bouts of LISS aren't very effective at driving mitochondrial change, and that the work needs to be continuous for 30 minutes or more to get the adapation.

This is a totally different adaptation than the anaerobic ones driven by HIIT.

 

[Adachi]

Defining the attributes in question is part of the exercise.

indeed.

I do wonder how much of it changes in the heart - volume, and pressure-wise.

but what I'll say is that substitute moves like very light snatches have proven to move that "work-capacity" in the desired direction of being able to carry my kid and sometimes more than one of them - to the car - parked further away, or for longer distances and over a longer span of time.

admittedly - I present the caveat - whatever that actually means. because I'm not certain of what is actually to blame.

it's something like:
I can garner increased carry weight and distance - by way of conditioning moves performed standing in place (I guess).

 

[Don Fairbanks]

I guess there's a question about whether it's good enough.
I've been able to sample some light snatching (snatch walking 16kg actually gets me huffing and puffing pretty quickly).
I've been able to sample some single heavy reps, that are spaced close enough to elicit a relatively steady elevated heart rate. (Clean+press+squat 32kg- or Long Cycle 40kg)
I guess - what I actually haven't tried is using swings.

my experience tells me that if there is one, the cardio effect is non-zero and can help with some of those attributes.
to what extent?
I don't imagine it'll help me much with a marathon pace.
but, one of my favorite tests- the kid carry, has been positively augmented by these (substitute) moves.
swings - for whatever reason is something that I haven't tinkered with - but is obviously an option for cardio substitutes- vis a vis: Strong endurance.

I may try and incorporate some swing training.
e.g. : light cardio for me would be the 24kg - sets of 10 - performed frequently enough to keep the heart pumping.
Goal for the session would be time - not reps. 20 - 40 minutes on the timer would suffice.
a heart rate monitor would make that range of timing the sets easier to control.

This am, SA with a 24, one round ( c-p-sq-sn ) on the :30 for 30 mins, max HR 162, ave . 141, MAF is 122. Have not been practicing, has been more than a yr. since I've snatched a 24, just felt like doing for GPP.

 

[watchnerd]

indeed.

I do wonder how much of it changes in the heart - volume, and pressure-wise.

but what I'll say is that substitute moves like very light snatches have proven to move that "work-capacity" in the desired direction of being able to carry my kid and sometimes more than one of them - to the car - parked further away, or for longer distances and over a longer span of time.

admittedly - I present the caveat - whatever that actually means. because I'm not certain of what is actually to blame.

it's something like:
I can garner increased carry weight and distance - by way of conditioning moves performed standing in place (I guess).

Yeah, I think that matches the athletic/sports/performance definition of "conditioning".

And it's a pretty quick adaptation -- 4-6 weeks can often do it.

It also fades quickly, too.

The adaptations Millan studies take longer and have longer duration health and metabolic impacts on things like blood glucose and inflammation.

 

[Adachi]

This am, SA with a 24, one round ( c-p-sq-sn ) on the :30 for 30 mins, max HR 162, ave . 141, MAF is 122. Have not been practicing, has been more than a yr. since I've snatched a 24, just felt like doing for GPP.

Makes me wanna get an HR monitor.
I just rely on song tempos I'm familiar with.
I just happen to be surprised that I never tinkered with including the swing.
It should be on the table as an option to calibrate the amount of stress per repeat, for sure.

 

[TedM]

Inigo Millan focuses his work on mitochondrial adaptation; his work seems to suggest short bouts of LISS aren't very effective at driving mitochondrial change, and that the work needs to be continuous for 30 minutes or more to get the adapation

Would you be able to give a layman a few non-technical examples (no initialisms/ acronyms allowed) of activities that fit this?

 

[Catherine Buck Le]

Hey guys, just an update on this. I ended up buying an Airdyne because I found rucking didn’t get my heart rate up that high. I think it’s a great compliment to the swings as the upper part is mostly pushing and the lower part is mostly quads so it seems like it’s a perfect compliment if anyone is interested in doing the same.

Hi @HoustonTexan,

Responding to your original question:

I think swings plus rucking plus airdyne will allow you to hit most of your goals around general fitness, playing with your kids, hiking, and enjoying life! Swings cover strength, power, and conditioning. The airdyne and/or rucking cover your cardiovascular and zone 2 training.

I think the only things missing are some single leg work for strength and stability on the trails, and mobility work to keep you pain-free, injury-free, and moving well.

I have a lot of swing tutorials and swing trouble-shooting videos on my YouTube channel, if you need a refresher on technique. The videos cover the two-arm and the one-arm swing. Here's one quick tutorial:




These three stretches from the Flexible Steel system (Brettzel, Frog, and Pump) would be a simple and effective starting point for making sure you're getting some mobility done:




I would also add a half-kneeling hip-flexor stretch to support your swing training.

Keep up the strong work and let us know how it's going!

 

[watchnerd]

Would you be able to give a layman a few non-technical examples (no initialisms/ acronyms allowed) of activities that fit this?

LISS = low intensity steady state (cardio)

Walking, biking, swimming, rowing, etc -- something where you can keep the pace constant, with lowish intensity, for 30-45 minutes, in this use case.

 

[watchnerd]

When I replied he wanted a "reasonable baseline of fitness", which crawling would definitely provide.

And for some reason you think crawling is a corrective exercise done by old people, while athletes all over the world are using it to expand their strength and endurance capabilities.

Well, I don't know of any research studies that prove that crawling is more efficacious at improving health outcomes than a combination of:

--Progressive resistance training
--Cardio training

In a scenario like the OP (busy dad with limited training time), and given that all training choices involve trade-offs in time and opportunity costs, I'd want to see pretty strong data that crawling is superior in outcomes to either of those modalities that it would warrant doing more crawling at the expense of less progressive resistance training and less cardio.

 

[guardian7]

Seems like quite a comprehensive list for something 'boiled down' for simplicities sake.

I rotate the focus throughout the year and some I can do as breaks while working in my office, so it is the total selection over the course of a year rotated rather than at any given time.

 

[Francisco]

I'm not so sure about that, at least not the way most people train them.

I don't see many people doing 30-45 minutes of Zone 2 LISS, 3x a week, using swings.

Strength training is super important, but the work of Inigo Milan also suggests we all need to be doing a lot more Zone 2 LISS than many of us are for general health and longevity.

Couldn’t agree more.
Also let’s not forget that moving for extended periods of time is something we evolved to do - into doing as we stepped down from the trees (hunting, foraging and so on).
Whereas - strength training - as is conceived: barbells, kettebells are proxies to drive adaptations to our otherwise mainly too sedentary XXI century lifestyle.
If we had to pick only one exercise to being healthy my take would be locomotion over varied terrain.
For the above reasons, if we could t then add one more it would be swings or something similar.

 

[Steve Freides]

Bunch of posts deleted, thread closed.

-S-