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Other/Mixed Tactical Fitness for civilian.

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
John K said:
I think what we can do though is to understand that an "operator" is the original "hybrid athlete" and we can strive to emulate that by developing those qualities - a large aerobic engine, anaerobic capacity, strength, and strength-endurance. It won't make us an operator, but it will develop a physically capable (and likely healthy) person. Some people emulate pro athletes or bodybuilders, emulating "operators" isn't that different.
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As I said, I get the aspirational impulse of the topic in terms of physical preparation. I have zero objection to that.

But I feel like the difference is how you would answer the question: "Are you willing to follow orders to do violence, take human life, and risk or sacrifice your own life, for country, mission, and comrades?" Any answer other than "yes" is the watered down civilian version (to paraphrase the original post). So, to my way of thinking, for a civilian, there is ONLY the watered down civilian version, and I would look at myself with distaste for pretending otherwise.

So that's what I guess I'm really reacting to, the idea that "I want the real thing," when the reality is that you actually don't.

BTW, I want to be clear that I am not negatively judging anyone who answers "yes" to the above question. I can imagine circumstances where I would too, but I'm thankful that I haven't experienced any, and I am thankful that others have made and do make that choice.
 
Steve W. said:
As I said, I get the aspirational impulse of the topic in terms of physical preparation. I have zero objection to that.

But I feel like the difference is how you would answer the question: "Are you willing to follow orders to do violence, take human life, and risk or sacrifice your own life, for country, mission, and comrades?" Any answer other than "yes" is the watered down civilian version (to paraphrase the original post). So, to my way of thinking, for a civilian, there is ONLY the watered down civilian version, and I would look at myself with distaste for pretending otherwise.

So that's what I guess I'm really reacting to, the idea that "I want the real thing," when the reality is that you actually don't.

BTW, I want to be clear that I am not negatively judging anyone who answers "yes" to the above question. I can imagine circumstances where I would too, but I'm thankful that I haven't experienced any, and I am thankful that others have made and do make that choice.
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Thanks for clarifying.
 
Steve W. said:
As I said, I get the aspirational impulse of the topic in terms of physical preparation. I have zero objection to that.

But I feel like the difference is how you would answer the question: "Are you willing to follow orders to do violence, take human life, and risk or sacrifice your own life, for country, mission, and comrades?" Any answer other than "yes" is the watered down civilian version (to paraphrase the original post). So, to my way of thinking, for a civilian, there is ONLY the watered down civilian version, and I would look at myself with distaste for pretending otherwise.

So that's what I guess I'm really reacting to, the idea that "I want the real thing," when the reality is that you actually don't.

BTW, I want to be clear that I am not negatively judging anyone who answers "yes" to the above question. I can imagine circumstances where I would too, but I'm thankful that I haven't experienced any, and I am thankful that others have made and do make that choice.
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Totally agreed, which is why for me "tactical fitness" is mostly synonymous with "hybrid training" unless you are actually in a service (military, LEO, firefighter ... maybe coasties ... I kid! ;) ) - and even then, it still IS hybrid training, you just now have a very pressing reason to excel, and potentially some different things to train (military likely needs rucks and/or swims, LEOs likely don't). "Tactical fitness" or "tactical athlete" became popular a while ago, I think largely as a marketing tool for folks that want to feel like they too can be tactical.

It is a lot like "sport performance" if you aren't actually a competitive athlete. I can train like an athlete and aspire to be strong and fast and powerful - but really it isn't sport performance if there's no sport. It is "just" exercise. It doesn't devalue it, it just changes the stakes.

And none of this is to be confused with the Tactical Games which is just a ton of fun. It is sort of like a modern take on Highland Games if you think about it... But that's a huge tangent... :p

Edit to add - I don't we are disagreeing on anything, so I guess I'm just talking to talk.
 
Shawn Crespi said:
I respect both you and Steve a lot in terms of your contributions here, and I’ll wait for Steve W. to respond with his perspective, but I see nothing wrong with trying to have the physical and mental conditioning of SOF operator or high end alpinist without actually doing those things. A lot of people are precluded from those endeavors due to commitments, family, medical conditions, etc. I for one cannot do SOF or high end alpinism because of a seizure disorder. Why not try at least to be in as bad-a#@ of shape as possible within the constraints of one’s own life?
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I totally get what you are saying and concur 100% that being “in as bad-a#@ of shape as possible within the constraints of one‘s own life” is a great thing to aspire to, as many of us around here work at being every day. Also many of us, myself included have various situations that do indeed limit ourselves to the constraints of our own lives. So we do what we can do to the best of our ability to do so…

However I also firmly believe that it is not possible “to have the physical and mental conditioning of SOF operator or high end alpinist without actually doing those things” … Especially the mental conditioning parts.
 
offwidth said:
I totally get what you are saying and concur 100% that being “in as bad-a#@ of shape as possible within the constraints of one‘s own life” is a great thing to aspire to, as many of us around here work at being every day. Also many of us, myself included have various situations that do indeed limit ourselves to the constraints of our own lives. So we do what we can do to the best of our ability to do so…

However I also firmly believe that it is not possible “to have the physical and mental conditioning of SOF operator or high end alpinist without actually doing those things” … Especially the mental conditioning parts.
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Agreed.
 
I was not coming to compare myself to SF.
I just think the SF community is the best source for hybrid style training that is robust.
As Pavel says there is a bif difference between a athlete and a operator.
 
Well, you asked ...

Shawn Crespi said:
Why not try at least to be in as bad-a#@ of shape as possible within the constraints of one’s own life?
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Because, for me, there are things much more important than being in bad-a#@ shape. My "shape" has higher purposes: to be healthy enough to care for family and not to be a burden on them or the health care system; to earn enough of a living to be able to help my children; to continue to improve in my chosen fields of endeavor.

Improving my strength and conditioning helps me with these things; focusing on it more than I already do would take away too much from the rest of my life. There's no way the "constraints of my life" would allow me to train like I was trying to make a Special Forces selection, or anything even vaguely close to that kind of training. Trying to train like a Navy Seal would be trying to imitate another rather than trying to be my best self.

JMO, YMMV (Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.)

-S-
 
Girevik007 said:
I dont want a watered down ,civilian friendly, soy version. I want exactly what you would recc a sf operator going over seas.
thoughts?
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You can find the actual physical reqs and the suggested training for them online. Pick your SF unit and DuckDuckGo get it.
 
Steve Freides said:
Well, you asked ...



Because, for me, there are things much more important than being in bad-a#@ shape. My "shape" has higher purposes: to be healthy enough to care for family and not to be a burden on them or the health care system; to earn enough of a living to be able to help my children; to continue to improve in my chosen fields of endeavor.

Improving my strength and conditioning helps me with these things; focusing on it more than I already do would take away too much from the rest of my life. There's no way the "constraints of my life" would allow me to train like I was trying to make a Special Forces selection, or anything even vaguely close to that kind of training. Trying to train like a Navy Seal would be trying to imitate another rather than trying to be my best self.

JMO, YMMV (Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.)

-S-
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That’s why I said “within the constraint’s of one’s own life.” Covers your family and other priorities and obligations, which are going to be different for everyone. If I remember correctly, you weightlift competitively and place first in your age group. That’s bad-a#@ shape in my eyes.

Is striving for the physical conditioning of a SOF operator overkill? Maybe. To each their own. Given recent world events (ie Russia invading Ukraine), I don’t think it’s such a bad idea.
 
offwidth said:
However I also firmly believe that it is not possible “to have the physical and mental conditioning of SOF operator or high end alpinist without actually doing those things” … Especially the mental conditioning parts.
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Dude 1 in bar: Hey, you look fit, how do you train?

Dude 2 in bar: Oh, thanks. I train for Spartan Races. It's a lot of work, but I've only done 2 so far. I hope to get better. What about you?

Dude 1: Oh, I train to be a SOF operator.

Dude 2: So....you're telling me you're SOF? I don't mean to be rude, but that's such a 'drunk guy in bar' thing to say.

Dude 1: Oh, heh, no...I'm not actually SOF. I just want to be capable of being one. But I don't actually want to do those things.

Dude 2: ummmm....okay...

;)
 
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Kettlebear said:
Exactly, you say?

Well, I wasn't SOF, but was Airborne Infantry and this is how we prepped for going overseas- I recommend a case of beer every night washed down with some sort of cheap liquor, at best 2 hours of sleep, and then a 6 mile gut-check run. Do that 5 days a week. Sometimes carry a huge log with you while you run, other times carry a 55 lb dry weight rucksack. For the ruck, pound 2 energy drinks and pop in some dip before you step off; maintain the nightly routine. Don't stop to vomit or lose pace while vomiting for any kind of run. When complete, climb ropes until your hands are splintered, and occasionally fight your buddies/practice blood choking each other. Throughout the day, arbitrarily force yourself to do hundreds of pushups, sit in the iron chair for at least 10 minute iterations, and make machine gun and airplane noises while doing dive bombers. On the weekends, ramp up the alcohol, but sleep a bit more. Occasionally do a 12 mile ruck march Saturday morning, hungover. Above all, Don't slack, don't whine, don't ever quit. And no cheerleading- if you aren't working hard enough.

That'll get you ready to punch terrorism in the face.
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Ahh so much electrolyte intake… gotta tell the miss I’m on the right path
 
My 2 cents from the land down under. Majority of testing down here is harder because they focus heavily on mental, not physical side of things.

The key isn't just to be able to do this stuff. It's to be able to do it when, @Kettlebear said, you haven't slept for 3 days, haven't been fed anything but fisheads soup.

That and the lack of feedback. During testing you are not told if you are doing well or badly. No one cheers you. No on says keep going son. It's just you and your f****** head . No one is allowed to talk. Below is the entrance test which is not bad. Here ya go:

1. A minimum of 40 cadence push-ups
2. A minimum of 7 cadence chin-ups
3. 2 mile run in under 16 mins wearing patrol uniform and kit weighing 10kg
4. 6.2 mile march in under 90 mins wearing patrol uniform and kit weighing 30kg
5. 400m swim in full uniform in under 18 minutes with 2-min water tread
 
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