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Other/Mixed Tactical Fitness for civilian.

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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Not a SOF or military guy, or somehow strong, but from my firefighter view:
1)Being able to swim and threat water for long time.
2)Buddy carry, lift and carry your loved ones (wife, gf, kids)
3)Run up few flights of stairs without sucking wind
4)Being able to do heavy work "chop wood, carry water" sleep deprived and hungry
5) avoiding tunnel vision during intense situations
 
That’s why I said “within the constraint’s of one’s own life.” Covers your family and other priorities and obligations, which are going to be different for everyone.

Shawn, if I offended, I apologize.

If I remember correctly, you weightlift competitively and place first in your age group. That’s bad-a#@ shape in my eyes.

There is nothing bad-a#@ about my powerlifting or my "shape." My PL ranking is a consequence of the sad state of fitness of people my age. I feel about my first place finishes in the same way you might feel if you found a $20 bill on the street, kind of "wow, this is great but I didn't do anything to deserve that". Awards make me smile but I almost never stay for the awards ceremony at the end of meets any more because I always get the trophy. When I went to Nationals last years, I was the only competitor in my age/weight and division - I stood on the podium with the silver and bronze spots empty.

25 years ago while I was recovering from a back injury I came to the realization that being stronger was necessary to the rest of my life. In the USPA my total gets me an Elite ranking because these things are done by percentages. I rank highly - in a weight class few people have the discipline to maintain, and an age group where few people choose to be strong. Somehow it seems to be OK to be weak, overweight, or both when you're a Senior Citizen.

I'm doing a meet this weekend - 45 lifters on the roster and I will be the lightest male and the 2nd oldest person. (The one guy who's older weighs 100 kg.) I've been a performer most of my life and I enjoy the challenge and the adrenaline of showing off in public so I go to these.

I got a late start in lifting, beginning in my mid 40's, and I've still got a lot of ground to cover before I'll consider myself adequately strong. My goals are a 2.5x bodyweight deadlift, something I've achieved but just barely; a 2x bodyweight squat, where I'm nowhere close, and a 1.5x bodyweight bench press, which I also haven't achieved but I think I might have a shot at in the not-too-distant future (hoping to hit 90 kg on Saturday and 1.5x bodyweight is 100 kg).

One last thing: Strongfirst literally has a t-shirt with “in case civilization is temporary” across the back of it. Pavel is (was?) a special forces trainer. Seems to me like OP’s question is pretty in line with the Strongfirst culture. JMO.

Yeah, there is that, and I guess how much one has to be prepared for the end of civilization is a personal choice. I read an article not that long ago, can't remember where, in which the author reviewed news reports, journalism, etc., going back quite a while. The conclusion was that every generation thinks their problems are a crisis and that the world as we know it could end at any minute, but that somehow life has continued. Is that a complacent attitude? I don't know. I don't profess to be able to see the future, but I take some solace from that article and have concluded, for myself, that the best thing for me to do in life is be a good personal example. More than that is going to be up to the politicians and the generals.

-S-
 
Shawn, if I offended, I apologize.



There is nothing bad-a#@ about my powerlifting or my "shape." My PL ranking is a consequence of the sad state of fitness of people my age. I feel about my first place finishes in the same way you might feel if you found a $20 bill on the street, kind of "wow, this is great but I didn't do anything to deserve that". Awards make me smile but I almost never stay for the awards ceremony at the end of meets any more because I always get the trophy. When I went to Nationals last years, I was the only competitor in my age/weight and division - I stood on the podium with the silver and bronze spots empty.

25 years ago while I was recovering from a back injury I came to the realization that being stronger was necessary to the rest of my life. In the USPA my total gets me an Elite ranking because these things are done by percentages. I rank highly - in a weight class few people have the discipline to maintain, and an age group where few people choose to be strong. Somehow it seems to be OK to be weak, overweight, or both when you're a Senior Citizen.

I'm doing a meet this weekend - 45 lifters on the roster and I will be the lightest male and the 2nd oldest person. (The one guy who's older weighs 100 kg.) I've been a performer most of my life and I enjoy the challenge and the adrenaline of showing off in public so I go to these.

I got a late start in lifting, beginning in my mid 40's, and I've still got a lot of ground to cover before I'll consider myself adequately strong. My goals are a 2.5x bodyweight deadlift, something I've achieved but just barely; a 2x bodyweight squat, where I'm nowhere close, and a 1.5x bodyweight bench press, which I also haven't achieved but I think I might have a shot at in the not-too-distant future (hoping to hit 90 kg on Saturday and 1.5x bodyweight is 100 kg).



Yeah, there is that, and I guess how much one has to be prepared for the end of civilization is a personal choice. I read an article not that long ago, can't remember where, in which the author reviewed news reports, journalism, etc., going back quite a while. The conclusion was that every generation thinks their problems are a crisis and that the world as we know it could end at any minute, but that somehow life has continued. Is that a complacent attitude? I don't know. I don't profess to be able to see the future, but I take some solace from that article and have concluded, for myself, that the best thing for me to do in life is be a good personal example. More than that is going to be up to the politicians and the generals.

-S-
No apology needed, friend. I’m sorry if I came across as abrasive. Only point I was trying to make is is that it’s not that crazy to want to emulate the physical conditioning of a SOF operator, especially here at StrongFirst. Not one of my aspirations personally, but I can understand where OP is coming from in trying to obtain that elite standard.
 
Hello,

As far as hybrid training is concerned, Alex Viada, Fergus Crawley, Ross Edgley are very interesting. They have great content on YT.

Kind regards,

Pet'
I'd add Alec Blenis to that list. He works with (for?) Alex Viada and puts out a lot of free solid content. I've also learned a lot from Stew Smith back in the early to mid 2000s and while I won't say he's "hybrid" he's kinda hybrid.
 
My 2 cents from the land down under. Majority of testing down here is harder because they focus heavily on mental, not physical side of things.

The key isn't just to be able to do this stuff. It's to be able to do it when, @Kettlebear said, you haven't slept for 3 days, haven't been fed anything but fisheads soup.

That and the lack of feedback. During testing you are not told if you are doing well or badly. No one cheers you. No on says keep going son. It's just you and your f****** head . No one is allowed to talk. Below is the entrance test which is not bad. Here ya go:

1. A minimum of 40 cadence push-ups
2. A minimum of 7 cadence chin-ups
3. 2 mile run in under 16 mins wearing patrol uniform and kit weighing 10kg
4. 6.2 mile march in under 90 mins wearing patrol uniform and kit weighing 30kg
5. 400m swim in full uniform in under 18 minutes with 2-min water tread
Excellent post. No cheerleading or "you got this," just shut up and do this.
 
But I feel like the difference is how you would answer the question: "Are you willing to follow orders to do violence, take human life, and risk or sacrifice your own life, for country, mission, and comrades?" Any answer other than "yes" is the watered down civilian version (to paraphrase the original post). So, to my way of thinking, for a civilian, there is ONLY the watered down civilian version, and I would look at myself with distaste for pretending otherwise.
I'd be ok with a watered down civilian version.

I totally get using "tactical" fitness as a model to work towards. It's multi-dimensional and will help a person become more physically capable and able bodied. And people like to feel they would be ready for "stuff" if something were to happen.
 
One last thing: Strongfirst literally has a t-shirt with “in case civilization is temporary” across the back of it. Pavel is (was?) a special forces trainer. Seems to me like OP’s question is pretty in line with the Strongfirst culture. JMO.
Thankfully it is less tacticool than it was in the past.
Remember when SF partnered with 5.11 to have a special line of pants and a training app?

I should note I'm speaking as someone who owns multiple pairs of 5.11 tactical pants and the in case civilization is temporary shirt...
 
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I always thought the "in case civilization is temporary" thing was more about the primitive/durable/don't need a gym nature of kettlebells than being tacticool.
I think that’s an unlikely interpretation given Pavel’s background as a SOF trainer and the multiple references to special forces training throughout his books. Either way, let’s hope that civilization isn’t temporary. “Prepare for the worst and hope for the best” seems salient here.
 
Shawn, if I offended, I apologize.



There is nothing bad-a#@ about my powerlifting or my "shape." My PL ranking is a consequence of the sad state of fitness of people my age. I feel about my first place finishes in the same way you might feel if you found a $20 bill on the street, kind of "wow, this is great but I didn't do anything to deserve that". Awards make me smile but I almost never stay for the awards ceremony at the end of meets any more because I always get the trophy. When I went to Nationals last years, I was the only competitor in my age/weight and division - I stood on the podium with the silver and bronze spots empty.

25 years ago while I was recovering from a back injury I came to the realization that being stronger was necessary to the rest of my life. In the USPA my total gets me an Elite ranking because these things are done by percentages. I rank highly - in a weight class few people have the discipline to maintain, and an age group where few people choose to be strong. Somehow it seems to be OK to be weak, overweight, or both when you're a Senior Citizen.

I'm doing a meet this weekend - 45 lifters on the roster and I will be the lightest male and the 2nd oldest person. (The one guy who's older weighs 100 kg.) I've been a performer most of my life and I enjoy the challenge and the adrenaline of showing off in public so I go to these.

I got a late start in lifting, beginning in my mid 40's, and I've still got a lot of ground to cover before I'll consider myself adequately strong. My goals are a 2.5x bodyweight deadlift, something I've achieved but just barely; a 2x bodyweight squat, where I'm nowhere close, and a 1.5x bodyweight bench press, which I also haven't achieved but I think I might have a shot at in the not-too-distant future (hoping to hit 90 kg on Saturday and 1.5x bodyweight is 100 kg).



Yeah, there is that, and I guess how much one has to be prepared for the end of civilization is a personal choice. I read an article not that long ago, can't remember where, in which the author reviewed news reports, journalism, etc., going back quite a while. The conclusion was that every generation thinks their problems are a crisis and that the world as we know it could end at any minute, but that somehow life has continued. Is that a complacent attitude? I don't know. I don't profess to be able to see the future, but I take some solace from that article and have concluded, for myself, that the best thing for me to do in life is be a good personal example. More than that is going to be up to the politicians and the generals.

-S-
You make numerous excellent points here.
The institusionalised cherry picking of popular science is a symptom of what you describe. People nowadays are very eager to stress that "exercise can not make you lose weight" (based on a very selective interpretation of scientific data), yet still hold on to the myth that "you need to have a higher fat percentage when you turn 40", as if that is a given fact rooted in any sort of science.

"I am now too old to train like that" is also a very common argument for, well, not training. If anything, reaching a mature age should remove any excuses against training stength, mobility and endurance.
 
"I am now too old to train like that" is also a very common argument for, well, not training. If anything, reaching a mature age should remove any excuses against training stength, mobility and endurance.
I hear that a lot from some of my military cohorts. The common thread (pun not intended) is that it comes from people who habitually make excuses and who are constantly looking for excuses to not put forth a challenging, legitimate effort.
 
Stumbled across these this morning. Thought they were worth a share in context of this conversation. They are a couple articles/assessments from Mountain Tactical Institute.

MTI Fitness Assessment (this covers several categories, including pro mountain folk, LEOs, and military). This has quite a few assessments for different jobs/activities.

Relative Strength Assessment, looking at Front Squat, Bench Press, Deadlift and Pull-ups relative to bodyweight. The idea here is if you meet the standards, you are "strong enough" and should make sure you're not sacrificing endurance.

Operator Ugly Fitness Test, which looks like an absolutely brutal fitness test. I like this one. I'm not sure I understand how #4 works - is one round 60s to run as many 25m shuttles as you can and then you have 60s rest between rounds? Calling it as 60s 25m sprint vs. 60s 25m shuttles confused me, but shuttles makes more sense.

Endurance Test - this would definitely be a long day. 3 mile run, 3 mile ruck run, and then 3 mile heavy ruck run. This is one I'm not sure I like.

This is their Backcountry Test which I like. The parts I don't like (e.g. the running portion of the sandbag getups) I'd be curious why they added that part in to it vs. the sandbag get ups + the shuttle sprints in the Operator Ugly test. Personally I like the idea of doing those two separate a la Operator Ugly. Some of what they decide to do (40 min step ups) seems like a necessary concession to fit this in as part of the test.

Anyways, it was some fun things to read and think about. I haven't done any of them. I included the backcountry test because it is more relevant to what I do these days, and because I think it would also be a pretty darn good "overall" for military as well.
 
Stumbled across these this morning. Thought they were worth a share in context of this conversation. They are a couple articles/assessments from Mountain Tactical Institute.

MTI Fitness Assessment (this covers several categories, including pro mountain folk, LEOs, and military). This has quite a few assessments for different jobs/activities.

Relative Strength Assessment, looking at Front Squat, Bench Press, Deadlift and Pull-ups relative to bodyweight. The idea here is if you meet the standards, you are "strong enough" and should make sure you're not sacrificing endurance.

Operator Ugly Fitness Test, which looks like an absolutely brutal fitness test. I like this one. I'm not sure I understand how #4 works - is one round 60s to run as many 25m shuttles as you can and then you have 60s rest between rounds? Calling it as 60s 25m sprint vs. 60s 25m shuttles confused me, but shuttles makes more sense.

Endurance Test - this would definitely be a long day. 3 mile run, 3 mile ruck run, and then 3 mile heavy ruck run. This is one I'm not sure I like.

This is their Backcountry Test which I like. The parts I don't like (e.g. the running portion of the sandbag getups) I'd be curious why they added that part in to it vs. the sandbag get ups + the shuttle sprints in the Operator Ugly test. Personally I like the idea of doing those two separate a la Operator Ugly. Some of what they decide to do (40 min step ups) seems like a necessary concession to fit this in as part of the test.

Anyways, it was some fun things to read and think about. I haven't done any of them. I included the backcountry test because it is more relevant to what I do these days, and because I think it would also be a pretty darn good "overall" for military as well.
There is also the ‘Alpine Combine’ from TFTNA:
Excellent Rating
Box Steps 305m with 20% BW Pack (wearing boots) <20min
Dips in 60s. >30
Sit-ups in 60s. >50
Pull-ups in 60s. >25
Box Jumps in 60s. >45
Push-ups in 60s. >40
 
ETK, I think. Not written as a program, but a statement by Russian Army Instructors. " If a soldier can complete 50 consecutive CJ's with 24's, they will be able to do anything we ask of them. " Something like that.
Is this doubles? The plural “24s” makes me think so. Sounds like a cool goal to work for.
 
There is also the ‘Alpine Combine’ from TFTNA:
Excellent Rating
Box Steps 305m with 20% BW Pack (wearing boots) <20min
Dips in 60s. >30
Sit-ups in 60s. >50
Pull-ups in 60s. >25
Box Jumps in 60s. >45
Push-ups in 60s. >40
25 pullups in 60s is insane. Those have to be kipping yeah?

Curious Brian - how do you think their standards would relate to your experience? Do you think they're necessary, or that meeting them would improve your abilities?
 
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