all posts post new thread

Kettlebell Test day in ROP

Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)

Bauer

Level 8 Valued Member
In ETK, Pavel recommends to run a test day every 4-8 weeks on a heavy day when you feel strong.

My impression is, that this is rarely done. I myself am a bit reluctant, because I like to use my good days for quality heavy days. Sure, test days are training, too, and yet I hesitate. But I like the idea of getting used to a heavier bell.

Anyway, has anyone continued training on the same day (after the test with the next bell up)?

I was thinking of running the C&P test as written (foregoing the Snatch test), then waiting 20-30 minutes, and continuing with a few ladders with my working bell as long as RPE does not exceed 8.

This way I might make use of the stimulation effect, described by Pavel in this article:

stimulation-interval-rest-period.jpg

Axis “Y” represents the work capacity, with the dotted line at 100% being the initial level. The numbers on the “X” axis are minutes after the set.
 
Last edited:
ROTK‘s test day (can’t remember for which block) is similar to your proposal where after testing you continue with your workout. You wouldn’t be completely crazy to try it, especially if it’s in the ETK book (haven’t read it for a while so I don’t remember; I only tested at the end of the entire program when I ran it).

Relating to the second half of your post: the question to consider is why test and lift? Is that more work just to satisfy the itch of working out, or will that make a meaningful difference in the results of the program? I’m not against experimentation, especially because you have ROTK and your quoted article to support the idea. I wholeheartedly support you in tweaking a program as long as it’s thought out and well-justified. That’s the only way for the rest of us to find out if there is room for improvement or if the program is perfect the way that it is now.

Thanks,
Sam Goldner, DPT
 
ROTK‘s test day (can’t remember for which block) is similar to your proposal where after testing you continue with your workout. You wouldn’t be completely crazy to try it, especially if it’s in the ETK book (haven’t read it for a while so I don’t remember; I only tested at the end of the entire program when I ran it).

Relating to the second half of your post: the question to consider is why test and lift? Is that more work just to satisfy the itch of working out, or will that make a meaningful difference in the results of the program? I’m not against experimentation, especially because you have ROTK and your quoted article to support the idea. I wholeheartedly support you in tweaking a program as long as it’s thought out and well-justified. That’s the only way for the rest of us to find out if there is room for improvement or if the program is perfect the way that it is now.

Thanks,
Sam Goldner, DPT
Thanks a lot, that is super helpful. Actually, I am starting a ROTK inspired block training phase (as described in the ROTK FAQ), alternating ROP 2.0 and KBSF Plan A/B (Single bell LCCJ).

Because of the short blocks I don't want to "waste" a heavy day. But somehow, I missed this paragraph from ROTK. I have now looked it up and it seems like the kind of guidance that I needed. Thanks again for the pointer :)
 
Thanks a lot, that is super helpful. Actually, I am starting a ROTK inspired block training phase (as described in the ROTK FAQ), alternating ROP 2.0 and KBSF Plan A/B (Single bell LCCJ).

Because of the short blocks I don't want to "waste" a heavy day. But somehow, I missed this paragraph from ROTK. I have now looked it up and it seems like the kind of guidance that I needed. Thanks again for the pointer :)
I have some stuff to finish first, but then I’m leaning heavily towards the 2 week block training, too. I like your idea; I’m trying to figure out how to weave snatching in to the rotation, too.

Thanks,
Sam Goldner, DPT
 
In ETK, Pavel recommends to run a test day every 4-8 weeks on a heavy day when you feel strong.
I don’t remember this - do you have a page number for the printed edition? Since the program generally takes around 12 weeks, that’s been how often I’ve tested when following it.

Thanks.

-S-
 
Because of the short blocks I don't want to "waste" a heavy day.
I know exactly what you mean. I’m in my 11th week of RoTK at the moment, and it’s my first foray into periods of two-week blocks. Heavy days have suddenly become very precious, which I think is both a blessing and a curse! You can really give it your all because you have a new stimulus coming in a couple of days, but if you’re not at your best, you have to wait three weeks for another shot.

Re: testing, if you’re going for a press PR with heavier bells, I’m all for having a little break before continuing with the session, perhaps taking it a little easier than usual (or going just as hard and trying for a some super-compensation).

With ballistics, on the other hand, I’m less keen on the idea of continuing after the test. When I completed the SSST recently - and also when I tested my max long cycles with double 32s > 24s > 16s (no rest, per RoTK) - there was no way I had the juice to keep training without risking injury.

As with most things, just listen to your body. You’ll know what feels right once you’ve tested!
 
I don’t remember this - do you have a page number for the printed edition? Since the program generally takes around 12 weeks, that’s been how often I’ve tested when following it.

Thanks.

-S-
pp. 145-149

You are even supposed to go up in weight once your are able to do 5 reps per arm with the next bell up (which might be sooner than reaching 5x5 ladders). But I have never heard of anyone actually doing this.
 
I have some stuff to finish first, but then I’m leaning heavily towards the 2 week block training, too. I like your idea; I’m trying to figure out how to weave snatching in to the rotation, too.
I am actually doing some light to medium ballistics practice in my strength block, before my C&P or on off-days (light to medium effort but medium to heavy bells). So far I focus on "easy A+A". Yesterday I did 8x5 Snatches OTM with the same bell I am pressing before medium ladders. The session before I did 10x3 2H Swings with a my heaviest bell. (I use a die roll to determine exercise and weight, but figure out the rep scheme by intuition). I think that the C&P ladders are actually a sort of grinding A+A building on top of the short A+A ballistics.
I know exactly what you mean. I’m in my 11th week of RoTK at the moment, and it’s my first foray into periods of two-week blocks. Heavy days have suddenly become very precious, which I think is both a blessing and a curse! You can really give it your all because you have a new stimulus coming in a couple of days, but if you’re not at your best, you have to wait three weeks for another shot.
Yeah, exactly! I am only in my first block but so far it really makes me focus on the main dish of the block. Btw, in the ROTK press test day description it says to test on a good heavy or medium day and to rest at least for 5 minutes afer the test. So that will be my guideline. Let's see. Thanks for your input and encouragement!
 
I am actually doing some light to medium ballistics practice in my strength block, before my C&P or on off-days (light to medium effort but medium to heavy bells). So far I focus on "easy A+A". Yesterday I did 8x5 Snatches OTM with the same bell I am pressing before medium ladders. The session before I did 10x3 2H Swings with a my heaviest bell. (I use a die roll to determine exercise and weight, but figure out the rep scheme by intuition). I think that the C&P ladders are actually a sort of grinding A+A building on top of the short A+A ballistics.

Yeah, exactly! I am only in my first block but so far it really makes me focus on the main dish of the block. Btw, in the ROTK press test day description it says to test on a good heavy or medium day and to rest at least for 5 minutes afer the test. So that will be my guideline. Let's see. Thanks for your input and encouragement!
True! I forgot about the medium day option but I disregard it as medium day is always super early and fasted before work for me. I time tests for a Sunday after food and a lazy start.

Let us know how you go!
 
pp. 145-149

You are even supposed to go up in weight once your are able to do 5 reps per arm with the next bell up (which might be sooner than reaching 5x5 ladders). But I have never heard of anyone actually doing this.
I do wonder if this reset to lower reps/heavier bell is how the programme is meant to March you up to a 1/2 BW press… running a 12 week cycle and hitting 24s for 5x5 then going again with a 32 doesn’t do it efficiently. Still a good programme but you get a lot of volume, with a lot of weight, before going near the goal.
 
Every heavy day in ROP is a test day. The dread of 75 reps each side with a 32. Then rolling an 11 and going all out on swings.

I don't miss those days. Don't get me wrong, it's a FANTASTIC program that yields results. Just don't miss being nicked up.
 
Every heavy day in ROP is a test day.
That's how I felt, too. The idea of doing a 1-2-3-4-5 ladder with a 5RM weight has always been too heavy for me. The program recommends, if memory serves, a weight that's a 5 - 8 RM weight, and 8 RM seems about right to me.

I took every heavy day as a test day in the sense of a technical max, not an all-out max - this is something I've mentioned before here. I would do as much as I was confident I could get through and thus sometimes shortened the overall length of the program.

-S-
 
I do wonder if this reset to lower reps/heavier bell is how the programme is meant to March you up to a 1/2 BW press… running a 12 week cycle and hitting 24s for 5x5 then going again with a 32 doesn’t do it efficiently. Still a good programme but you get a lot of volume, with a lot of weight, before going near the goal.
I know that the common interpretation of ROP is a 3 three month progression, as Pavel instructs to add a heavier rung each week.

However, I interpret it more freely, and I believe it is in line with Pavel's teachings. If you need more time to stabilize a step, fine. If moving faster, fine. Moving up to a 4kg heavier bell, fine.

In general, don't be afraid to take extra time when necessary and don't be afraid of heavier bells either.

But I am also doing an experimental version of it under the guidance of an SFG, and it has a slightly different progression and goes, for example, only
to 5x2,3,5. Therefore I cannot really speak to the original progression.
 
I do wonder if this reset to lower reps/heavier bell is how the programme is meant to March you up to a 1/2 BW press… running a 12 week cycle and hitting 24s for 5x5 then going again with a 32 doesn’t do it efficiently. Still a good programme but you get a lot of volume, with a lot of weight, before going near the goal.
That’s a good point; it lets you cycle through the lower volume weeks until you stall with a weight (meaning, the test at 4-8 weeks doesn’t bump you up) and then you continue increasing ladders to build up the volume with that weight until you can use the next bell up.

My challenge with ETK was the high volume; this way of running it potentially allows for staying in the lower half/two-thirds of the program depending on testing results.

Thanks,
Sam Goldner, DPT
 
I think that the C&P ladders are actually a sort of grinding A+A building on top of the short A+A ballistics.
Here is the quote from Pavel I was having in mind:
Pavel said:
Gray Cook has pointed out that my ETK Rite of Passage military press plan is a work capacity protocol. Inspired by the Soviet weightlifting methodology, it has to be. Even though strength remains its number-one goal and alactic plus aerobic endurance is just a “WTHE.”
Source: What is "Work Capacity"? [Part I] | StrongFirst

And here is a related quote from Pavel from the newsletter
Pavel said:
When your main goal is mitochondrial development in fast twitch fibers, power exercises rule and sprints are close behind. In contrast, “grinds” deliver less than half the gains of either. When it comes to “what the hell effects,” quick lifts also have the edge. (To learn more, refer to The Quick and the Dead.)

Thus someone like a boxer or a general fitness minimalist could do just fine limiting himself to explosive A+A. But if your sport or occupation demands repeated strength efforts—think wrestling or moving pianos—or you simply enjoy lifting heavy stuff, add “grinds” to your A+A arsenal as well.
 
pp. 145-149

You are even supposed to go up in weight once your are able to do 5 reps per arm with the next bell up (which might be sooner than reaching 5x5 ladders). But I have never heard of anyone actually doing this.
I did it as written. You move up a lot faster and save some wear and tear from those high volume days.

Works well.
 
Good thread. I have been running rop with the 24kg bell for a few months.
Did the test day today inspired by this thread (and I've never tried one before except at the cycle end / didn't recall that section of the book). Anyway, got 5 press reps on each arm with the 28! It was not easy and a sixth was not happening on either arm so it was a rm.

So I should restart with the 28 according to the book. Just unsure whether to, as I can still see 5x5 ladders with 24kg being a challenge and maybe lead to more gains in conditioning, body comp, work capacity. What to do?
 
Good thread. I have been running rop with the 24kg bell for a few months.
Did the test day today inspired by this thread (and I've never tried one before except at the cycle end / didn't recall that section of the book). Anyway, got 5 press reps on each arm with the 28! It was not easy and a sixth was not happening on either arm so it was a rm.

So I should restart with the 28 according to the book. Just unsure whether to, as I can still see 5x5 ladders with 24kg being a challenge and maybe lead to more gains in conditioning, body comp, work capacity. What to do?
I would say: Rest over the weekend and go with the 28. As you continue with the process you will gain strength and probably muscle anyway. The way I see it, the goal of the program is a half BW press for a single and not a quarter BW press for 10 :)

Or: Consolidate your gains with the 24 for 2-4 weeks knowing that you are already strong enough to move up and then go for it with confidence.

What excites you more?

And while we are at it: Which ladder is your current max with the 24?
 
Just unsure whether to, as I can still see 5x5 ladders with 24kg being a challenge and maybe lead to more gains in conditioning, body comp, work capacity. What to do?
I think @Bauer ‘s suggestion is good. You could consolidate the 24kg for another few weeks but then start using the 28kg with 1,2,3 ladders. It’s also possible to start incorporating the 28kg on the lower rungs for a while and see how it feels.

In terms of body comp and work capacity - diet aside - you still have the swings and snatches giving you a healthy dose.
 
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Back
Top Bottom