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Kettlebell TGU Benefits - Heavy vs. "light"

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JGP718

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Just wondering what everyone's opinion is of doing the TGU heavy vs lighter. I do really love the TGU and have seen a lot of benefits from it. I am fairly comfortable doing the TGU with a 24kg for 5 sets of 1 each arm. My question is would I be missing a lot if I did not continue up in weight from there. I would never take them out of my program but just wondering what everyone's thoughts are. Thanks!
 
Dan John: "I don't do weighted Get Ups...for me or my people. Some of the drills, yes, but not the full movement."
He goes on to say that the only thing he would add to them would be the shoe or the half-filled watercup. It seems to be a risk-reward issue and weighted TGUs pose too much risk of injury in his opinion (dropping weight on your head).

Personally I think there's no problem going heavier as long as you do it carefully and are in control of the weight.
Don't introduce a bigger KB in a fatigued state, only add one rep at a time and stay there until you feel strong.
And never ever go for a true 1RM!

The TGU can be a pure mobility (+"movement quality") exercise or a mix of mobility and whole-body strength. If you're on S&S the TGU will be your strength move so you need to progress in weight, but if you're on a different strength program (with DLs or squats) imo you can just stay at 24 and keep the benefits you get from it.
 
Kettlebelephant that is interesting about Dan John. There is definitely potential for scary moments if you don't focus 100% when upping the weight, or just having a heavy weight in general. The part that has given me trouble when working in the heavier weight is moving from my back to my elbow. If I didn't push with my leg and roll to the side strong enough or lost focus in that transition the bell had a tendency to fall slightly forward and I would have to let it fall to the side and slide out from under it. Has only happened a few times in the past 5 months or so, but it is cause for reflection. Sure is fun to do it heavy though
 
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Kettlebelephant said:
Dan John: "I don't do weighted Get Ups...for me or my people. Some of the drills, yes, but not the full movement."
He goes on to say that the only thing he would add to them would be the shoe or the half-filled watercup. It seems to be a risk-reward issue and weighted TGUs pose too much risk of injury in his opinion (dropping weight on your head).
Click to expand...

Absolute nonsense.
 
@Pnigro, there is more than one way to become stronger. Let's please not call this piece of advice "absolute nonsense." We only say that we know what we do works; we don't call others' advice wrong unless it is clearly unsafe, which the piece of advice in question is not.

Thank you.

@JGP718, there is no reason to avoid heavy getups unless, well, unless you have a good and specific reason to avoid them. As a matter of general principle, if you are following the S&S program, you will want to follow the book's guidance about what weight to use for your getups.

Among the many reasons to go heavy with your getups is that a heavy getup can uncover form and movement issues that a lighter one will not reveal, e.g. I have seen a number of trainees "tomahawk" their getups (if you don't know what that is, perhaps someone else can chime in and explain) without consequence until the weight gets heavy, at which point that strategy no longer works for them; that is but one example of why a heavy getup is such an excellent exercise.

If you'd like feedback on your getup, post a video here, please.

-S-
 
JGP, if you are on the 24 and comfortable with it then you will find the 32 'fun'. Quite honestly, I would have never attempted or even thought about using a 32 for get ups if not for S&S. Stuff happens with a 32, I've a new back and shoulder complex. The 32 does not allow you to day dream or lose focus, it is a serious gear change and well worth the challenge. I feel both light get ups and heavy get ups have merits, no reason why you can't do both.
 
my opinion based on my experience is "yes there are benefits to moving to a 32 kg bel for TGUs when you are ready". Besides the strength, I have noticed solid muscle growth in the shoulders, upper back, traps, triceps and forearms.

I had the same question when I first started on SS in May and with a 35 lb DB. I was even considering getting an in-between sized 44 lb bell in anticipation of moving up in weight but thinking the 24 kg would be out of reach for a while. Now I am able to use a 36 KG bell that I cycle in for some SS reps - like 1-3 with 36, 4-5 with 32 and can confidently use the 32 (and meet the SS standard for the TGU portion, not swings yet). My experience has been

- Patiently keep using the weight you feel confident in and build up the volume

- when the current weight feel "easy" for your body, try a rep at the next weight up.

- slowly add a rep or 2 with the heavier weight until you get to all 5


For ex, when trying 32 for the first time, I did it on my second rep and just to the standing position.

I was sort of shocked and really excited that I could actually do a half rep!

Now I am able to use a 36 kb bell for all reps if I chose, but still cycle those in for 1-3 per SS session while I continue to use the 32 that I feel that I "own".
 
The phrase "no number stands alone" comes to mind in regards to the Dan John quote. In that, he is programming for an individual with adjustments, as needed, based in real time feedback.

Pavel has written a durable program that is a great place to start for anyone. Further, for many, a great place to stay.

If a practitioner is concerned about moving up in weight with TGU's then S&S may not be their best solution.

Live well!
 
load it up as long as you stay nice and smooth and teach your shoulder to stay packed under load. Learn to do segmented rolls, and do a few before you do your TGU's too and they will make the transition to your elbow easier with heavier weight.

2 cents :)
 
Pnigro said:
Absolute nonsense.
Click to expand...

What he's saying is that for the athletes he trains and under the conditions in which he trains them, the risks of loaded get ups outweigh their benefits.

As a Master SFG, his advice to anyone wishing to advance within the StrongFirst system was to reach the Simple goal before moving on with any other kettlebell training. So he's not absolutely opposed to weighted get ups.

It's not a contradiction. It's an application of "performance standards dictate complexity in training" Two different approaches for two different training populations.

Hope that helps.
 
JGP718 said:
Just wondering what everyone's opinion is of doing the TGU heavy vs lighter.
Click to expand...

Doing get ups with a shoe has benefits. Going heavy with get ups has benefits. There is one, who says so, there is one who says so, also.
Personally I like to go heavy with get ups. Why? That fulfils the saying, that it makes happy, to lift heavy things overhead. I can get MUCH heavier getting up with, than to strictly press it. If that is reasonable, I don't know, but I don't care anyway. That this is risky the heavier the weight that is sure. But it makes ME happy...
 
heavy getups have done more to seal leaks in my frame than any other exercise. when i practice TGUs with a heavy bell (daily) i feel like i am reinforcing a protective shield that i have built up over the past few years, hip problems … gone, shoulder problems … gone, low back problems … gone. this exercise has also provided me protection in many walks of life, whether it be weekend warrior sports stuff on field or court, or weekend warrior home repair requiring moving, lifting, carrying, holding and swinging heavy objects. and like Harald says … it makes me happy.
 
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Getups? Yes....

try doing lighter ones as slow as you can and heavier ones with more precision and control rather than merely muscling them or going thru each step as fast as you can..
 
I have all this^^^ to look forward to.

One month into S&S and I am just now able to complete 5 TGUs each side, with 4.5kg each side.

That will continue until I own that weight for TGU.

Then 6.8kg.

Then 9kg.

We are all at a different place on the same journey.

I am so grateful for those of you who have gone before me to show me the way.
 
Lew said:
I have all this^^^ to look forward to.

One month into S&S and I am just now able to complete 5 TGUs each side, with 4.5kg each side.

That will continue until I own that weight for TGU.

Then 6.8kg.

Then 9kg.

We are all at a different place on the same journey.

I am so grateful for those of you who have gone before me to show me the way.
Click to expand...

Exactly its your own journey so all we can do is guide
 
I want to add Dan John judges movements by a risk vs rewards scale. I would guess if you were to ask him if heavy weighted get ups where good for you he would say something along the lines of "absolutly, but how much is head trama worth?" Dan John is a brilliant strength coach. That being said...weighted get ups were made in a dungeon of bad assery and dipped in awesome sauce. I love the feeling of a heavy getup
 
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