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Kettlebell TGU timing

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jhpowers

jhpowers

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So, I'm still consistently plugging away at s & s and have been a little frustrated with my TGU progress. One thing that I noted is that Pavel says that you should work towards a 1:1 work:rest ratio to get down to 10 minutes on test day, but I noticed on my stop watch that each rep has been taking me 45-60 sec. One upshot of this is that I am pretty sure that I'm in the glycollytic zone. Today I tried to do 30 sec reps and, frankly, with less time under tension, it was much less fatiguing. On the other hand, the movement felt a bit rushed and I didn't feel like I could focus on where I was leaking tension, my alignment, etc

So, do I...
(1) Try to speed up my reps in order to meet the standard
(2) Keep doing what I'm doing and see whether the reps naturally get shorter. (I'm a little skeptical about this because I kind of like doing them slowly.)
(3) Wave the intensity by doing reps st a variety of speeds to provide a variable stimulus.
 
@jhpowers The getup is the Yin (slow) component of the Yin/Yang continuum of S&S. You need to perform them slow, but deliberately at every phase while owning your alignment. Never rush and compromise safety to meet "the standard" because meeting this standard takes into account doing each rep safely.

S&S is designed to be performed daily with the swings first and then the getups. Pavel has an expectation that your swings will progress faster than your getup so no need to worry. Stay deliberate with your getups and as the days pile up into weeks your average rep time should average out at 30 seconds each.
 
Hello,

@jhpowers
natewhite39 said:
Pavel has an expectation that your swings will progress faster than your getup so no need to worry.
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I remember there was a thread where most people effectively said that their swings progressed much faster than their TGU.

jhpowers said:
Keep doing what I'm doing and see whether the reps naturally get shorter
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They will be naturally shorter ! Do not worry about that. It is a process that takes time. You will create a kind of "muscle habit" : the more you practice, the stronger you become, the easier it will be...the faster it will be.

jhpowers said:
Wave the intensity by doing reps st a variety of speeds to provide a variable stimulus
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Good idea here ! Another option you may have (only an idea) is to also vary your weight bell. That way, you will both practice : you will still train muscle, but also technique, and at the same time, you will "recover" a little. We never have to forget than muscle are built during recovery period.

Keep going !

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
jhpowers said:
I noticed on my stop watch that each rep has been taking me 45-60 sec. One upshot of this is that I am pretty sure that I'm in the glycollytic zone.
Click to expand...

I don't think that glycolytic is a concern that applies to get-ups. And the good news is, you're getting a lot more out of your get-ups than someone who rushes them. :)

Good advice above. I would add, practice un-weighted get-ups from time to time, or as part of your warm-up or cool-down. It will help you find more smoothness and comfort in the movements.
 
FWIW, the mix I like best with the getup is moving slowly with bodyweight only or something very light, perhaps a 4-8 kg bell. Once the weight becomes noticeable somewhere around 16 kg, even if it's not really heavy, I prefer to move at whatever feels like a good speed to move at.

-S-
 
Thanks everyone. I think that summing up the totaL wisdom of the group. I will let my rep timing evolve naturally while pushing to do a session quicker (but safely) every week or two. I'm not ready to even considering up a bell yet, so I don't really test, but I do push my limit every so often without consciously intending to reach the standard.

One thing I would add though, my heart rate sometimes stays consistently higher during my TGU training than the swing session and it is my experience that pushing the limit on rest periods effects my recovery with the TGU more than the swing. I suspect that the TGU uses just as much glycogen as the swing and that pushing beyond the 1:1 work ratio for either exercise makes daily training more problematic.
 
@jhpowers, please reread Page 52 of S&S, especially the second half, where it says things like "Do not rush" and "It is too easy to lose focus ... when you are chasing the clock," the latter by @Rif.

No clock for your getups, period. Once in a while, start the clock but don't look at it until your getups are over, just to see where you are - but don't rush to beat your previous time. When it comes time to _test_, which shouldn't be often, then aim to meet a particular time standard with a weight you completely own when not subjected to a time standard.

-S-
 
Hello,

@jhpowers
Time does not have to make you forget technique and safety.

From my experience... Once I wanted to go faster. I do not know why but I thought I was "late". Then the bell almost fall on me because I lost balance and unlocked my arm.

Since, I prefer taking my time ! Never rush is a key !

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
As @Anna C, don't bother with glycollytic zone when doing get ups. Also, don't rush them. There will come a time when the weight will feel easier and you'll be able to do them quicker, just do them as you feel comfortable and you'll se results and time improvements. Are you holding positions, or is it just a matter of slowly performing the whole lift because that is the speed at which you feel fine? Also, what weight are you using for these get ups? For how long have you been following Simple&Sinister? These are all informations that could help to work towards better answers, I think.

As @Steve Freides says, you should only watch your clock at the end of the session, when doing get ups.

Also, I suggest to do not compare the two lifts, in terms of progression. Most people have a stronger and a weaker one, so it's natural that the former can speed up progression while the latter will need a little bit more time. I, for example, have had the Simple standard in swings waaaaay before my get ups came, it was a matter of many factors: first of all, it swings where (and are) my stronger lift between the two and, second, for a good period of time I felt TGUs were dangerous so I slowed down due to plain fear.
 
Thanks all. Okay, no clock watching during the workout with TGU. Take it slow, safe and as my body tells me.

Given that the swings come first during the workout, do you think that they effect progress with the TGU? I was thinking that since I'm already swinging the 32kg, I would just hang out with this weight even when I reach the simple standard. That way more "adaptation energy" would be directed towards the get up.
 
Hello,

@jhpowers
jhpowers said:
Okay, no clock watching during the workout with TGU. Take it slow, safe and as my body tells me.
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You get it !

jhpowers said:
do you think that they effect progress with the TGU?
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Yes, they effect TGU progress. Most people report a faster progress with swings than TGU (due to volume and also because you do this exercise while you are fresh). However, do not worry, your GU will progress.

A solution you may have to increase GU could be:
Sometimes (eg 2 sessions a week), you swing with a slightly lighter bell, and GU with a slightly heavier. Then, progressively, you re-introduce sets with your heavier swings, while maintaining you heavier GU.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Something is not adding up to me in some of this discussion.

The strength benefits of the TGU come from time under tension. Therefore, isn't the time of the actual get-up important to some degree?
 
For me, I find the meditative aspect of the getup the most beneficial. I like how they take concentration and focus. Second is the agility of moving weight in vulnerable positions. I find the timing doesn't matter as much as how many I do before fatigue ruins form. I feel worrying about the time only happens when attempting to progress too quickly. I think moving up a weight should feel more like, "if I don't increase the weight, I'm kind of wasting my time"

Personally, I think the swings do not affect the TGU much. I also feel like the TGU and swing should progress at the same rate for a reason - balance. I am an advocate of not moving up a weight on anything until both are equal. If it's taking too long, perhaps add more volume with the TGU (up to 20x) or hit some bench press and rows to build upper body strength to help the getups reach the swing weight.
 
Hello,

Anna C said:
The strength benefits of the TGU come from time under tension
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The slower you will go, the more you will work on your slow twitch. To some extents, I think it is good, twice a week or so, to work slowly. Thus we (let say "I") get a better technique and increase "strength endurance".

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
I've been doing TGUs for about 7 years, currently bouncing between the 40 and 48. my thought is that the TGU movement is meant to be slow and deliberate, pausing where necessary, but the 1:1 ratio of work and rest, i think is much too much and frankly thought it only applied to the swing, but i haven't read the book in a while. You are moving from one side of the body to the other, cutting time between reps, not cutting the amount of time it takes to perform a rep, is how you get the time down into the 7-8minute range without rushing the movement - i never felt it necessary to pause between reps and found it much more productive to finish one side roll the bell over or flip the body around and get right into the next rep - again proceed through the movement slowly - my TGUs have always progressed faster than my swings, so i don't feel there is a detrimental effect to the TGU by doing the swing first - everyone is different. enjoy the journey.
 
Hello,

Keep Lifting said:
i never felt it necessary to pause between reps and found it much more productive to finish one side roll the bell over or flip the body around and get right into the next rep - again proceed through the movement slowly - my TGUs have always progressed faster than my swings
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I think they progressed faster because you do like that. But it is not a 5 sets of 1, but 1 set of 5. How is your rest between two reps ? And between the 2 sides ?

I prefer alternate because while I do one side, the other can rest. I find this option safer.

Once again, everyone can adapt to one's own preferences.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
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