Kettlebell The benefits of snatches over swings

[Pete L]

I think this article is missing the issue of recovery, especially for us over 50. One can do swings daily but snatches take more out of you. Some programs offer an option of swings and then once a week snatch going right back to RoP for a reason.

The regression that worked best for me was the high pull. I am certainly not an expert here but a snatch is a high pull that gets punched through and ends up in a snatch was a more helpful cue for me.

@Geoff Neupert teaches that there are four learning styles of which your prefered cue is one. From a recent email of his;
[1] Swing Snatch
[2] High Pull Snatch
[3] High Speed C+P Snatch
[4] “Elephant’s Trunk” Snatch
I've yet to focus on the snatch.
Did you do a lot of high pulling as a stepping stone please?

 

[Kev]

Yeah snatches also turn you into an eating machine. Those 8 weeks of snatching I was permanently hungry. I don’t recall swings doing that and I made the swing my main move for a year solid once. I don’t even remember Dan Johns 10,000 swing challenge making my appetite as bad as 8 weeks of KSK did.

 

[rwleonard]

I like both. But if I had to choose, I'd go with snatch. I feel that A+A style snatches cover a lot of bases, given you're using an adequately heavy bell. But why choose between the two?
I like to snatch several times a week, but when my hands are needing a break, 2 hand heavy swings are just what the doctor ordered. You can use a much heavier load and concentrate on the hip snap, while not worrying about grip being a limiting factor.

I perhaps mis-stated the OP's opening remarks. I am not looking to chose between the two, rather trying to add a bit more information to the OP's question.

 

[guardian7]

@Geoff Neupert teaches that there are four learning styles of which your prefered cue is one. From a recent email of his;
[1] Swing Snatch
[2] High Pull Snatch
[3] High Speed C+P Snatch
[4] “Elephant’s Trunk” Snatch
I've yet to focus on the snatch.
Did you do a lot of high pulling as a stepping stone please?

I just did the basic high pull. Not a lot. Just a means to an end of a snatch regression.
I put off the snatch for too long. I think that was a mistake. You can take it slow and practice the snatch while continuing with the bulk of your volume in swings. There is definitely more of a learning curve.

At the risk of stating the obvious, the snatch is not a swing that ends overhead because a key for beginners is to know when to bend the elbow before straightening it again at lockout. The swing keeps the arm straight. Many beginners let it stray too far forward instead of "taming the arc" by keeping it close to the body. The only way to do that is to control it by bending the elbow. The energy needs to be projected up, not forward. Think about where the bell would fly if you let go between the swing and snatch. That is why the cue of the snatch being a clean that ends up overhead makes more sense but still doesn't quite capture it for me.

For beginners, figuring out when to bend the elbow before straightening it in the lockout is a key step. When using a lighter bell to practice, it is easy to put too much "arm" in it. The snatch is also closer to the centerline than the swing (Aleks Salkin). Like your press lockout, your arm needs to be fairly close to your ear. Look at Pavel M's elbow transition and the straightness of his lockout in these pictures. Lion’s Roar Kettlebell Snatch | StrongFirst You can see a bit of "drift" in the lockout by many beginners and even in some technique videos online. Pavel Macek is a good source of information. I recommend his four count swing video, which I think should become part of the SF standard cues.

You can think of the hinge as a kind of booster rocket. It provides the thrust for the initial launch but then you need to guide and control the velocity. You also need to guide and control the fall back to "earth" by not overgripping or muscling it down too much and expending too much energy and destroying your hands. Not easy but worth learning.

Keep in mind that I am not an expert but using SF or SFG 2 certified sources of tips and giving you my own experience as someone still learning the snatch as you asked.

 

[Pete L]

I just did the basic high pull. Not a lot. Just a means to an end of a snatch regression.
I put off the snatch for too long. I think that was a mistake. You can take it slow and practice the snatch while continuing with the bulk of your volume in swings. There is definitely more of a learning curve.

At the risk of stating the obvious, the snatch is not a swing that ends overhead because a key for beginners is to know when to bend the elbow before straightening it again at lockout. The swing keeps the arm straight. Many beginners let it stray too far forward instead of "taming the arc" by keeping it close to the body. The only way to do that is to control it by bending the elbow. The energy needs to be projected up, not forward. Think about where the bell would fly if you let go between the swing and snatch. That is why the cue of the snatch being a clean that ends up overhead makes more sense but still doesn't quite capture it for me.

For beginners, figuring out when to bend the elbow before straightening it in the lockout is a key step. When using a lighter bell to practice, it is easy to put too much "arm" in it. The snatch is also closer to the centerline than the swing (Aleks Salkin). Like your press lockout, your arm needs to be fairly close to your ear. Look at Pavel M's elbow transition and the straightness of his lockout in these pictures. Lion’s Roar Kettlebell Snatch | StrongFirst You can see a bit of "drift" in the lockout by many beginners and even in some technique videos online. Pavel Macek is a good source of information. I recommend his four count swing video, which I think should become part of the SF standard cues.

You can think of the hinge as a kind of booster rocket. It provides the thrust for the initial launch but then you need to guide and control the velocity. You also need to guide and control the fall back to "earth" by not overgripping or muscling it down too much and expending too much energy and destroying your hands. Not easy but worth learning.

Keep in mind that I am not an expert but using SF or SFG 2 certified sources of tips and giving you my own experience as someone still learning the snatch as you asked.

Great, thanks.
I'm doing C&J currently so am used to the tight elbow cue. I'll try to practice some high pulls sooner rather than later.
Ta

 

[Kev]

The greatest snatch teaching aid is a brick wall or a large person you might offend if you hit them. If you take the backswing position make sure your forehead is 2inches from the wall. Then stand up straight and practice your snatch. You should be able to snatch there and not hit the wall. Really prolonging forearm contact with the abdomen before the hip snap sends the bell up and over is an utter gold cue for the snatch. The bell effortlessly goes to lockout. Hard to remember when you are blowing though.

 

[Don Fairbanks]

The greatest snatch teaching aid is a brick wall or a large person you might offend if you hit them. If you take the backswing position make sure your forehead is 2inches from the wall. Then stand up straight and practice your snatch. You should be able to snatch there and not hit the wall. Really prolonging forearm contact with the abdomen before the hip snap sends the bell up and over is an utter gold cue for the snatch. The bell effortlessly goes to lockout. Hard to remember when you are blowing though.

Brett Jones curtain drill.

 

[rwleonard]

I think about camming my wrist off my pubic arch, to get the bell going up early instead of out. (I don't actually do that, of course)

 

[silveraw]

Hi Ryan;

What is deep six?

Best;

Ege

The swing, clean, snatch, press, front squat, and getup.
Basically the main lifts SF focuses on.

 

[guardian7]

Great, thanks.
I'm doing C&J currently so am used to the tight elbow cue. I'll try to practice some high pulls sooner rather than later.
Ta

Is there a reason to do C&J before the snatch? It is an unusual sequence.

 

[watchnerd]

I think about camming my wrist off my pubic arch, to get the bell going up early instead of out. (I don't actually do that, of course)

Bang vs Brush: KB Edition!

 

[Pete L]

Is there a reason to do C&J before the snatch? It is an unusual sequence.

I switched to S&S in 2019 during the pandemic and then bought the KB-SF programme from BJJ Fanatics.
I did try snatches as part of a failed run of ROP and tore my palm on the first run. My grip style has since improved but just have too many goals to chase

 

[BrianCF]

Snatch is my all time favorite exercise and nothing is even close. One hand swings? On rest days from snatching!

The downsides of it are even with good form, it is rough on the hands. You can't do too many of them because you'll run the risk of tennis elbow.

All time favorite workout when I'm free-forming and not following any program:
Set clock for 20 minutes
5L, 5R, rest until top of minute.
24/25 kg bell.

Alas, they are on the can't do list for me and will be for quite awhile.

 

[watchnerd]

benefits of snatches over swings?

Snatches are way more fun. Swings are boring, but healthy -- like eating your broccoli.

I always feel like a boss when I put something heavy over my head.

I swear it's more systemically anabolic, too.

 

[rwleonard]

Yeah, I don't enjoy swings or TGU's like I do snatches, long cycles, and Bent Presses, but they never hurt me and the benefits are good. I rarely experience an injury that keeps me from doing two hand swings if nothing else.

 

[watchnerd]

I think this article is missing the issue of recovery, especially for us over 50. One can do swings daily but snatches take more out of you.

I'm actually the other way around.

When I stop being explosive, I stop snatching (bell stops going up), so it has a natural volume governor that is below my recovery threshold.

But heavy swings I can keep still keep grinding through fatigue, so I can end up having more recovery debt.

 

[watchnerd]

I rarely experience an injury that keeps me from doing two hand swings if nothing else.

I only get motivated to do 2 hand swings if I can do them shirtless in the sun so I can work on my tan at the same time.

And they're low technique enough that I can still do them after a few lawnmower beers.

 

[Kev]

Inspired by Bud Jeffries. Requiscant in pace, I started chasing stupid volume in the 1 arm swing. I worked up to 800 with my 25kg and 600 with the 32kg. I started getting weird metabolic affects though. One minute I’d be fine the next drenched in sweat. In fact I once demonstrated using a basketball to train 1 arm push-ups and the sweat just started bucketing out of me and one time my heart just started Jack hammering for no reason. I had a pal who experienced similar effects from powering high volume 1 arm swings. Still didn’t stop me lol. Was when every callous on my hand tore in what felt like slow motion that put an end to that insanity. Once my hand healed I just couldn’t face that kind of stuff.

 

[watchnerd]

Inspired by Bud Jeffries. Requiscant in pace, I started chasing stupid volume in the 1 arm swing. I worked up to 800 with my 25kg and 600 with the 32kg. I started getting weird metabolic affects though. One minute I’d be fine the next drenched in sweat. In fact I once demonstrated using a basketball to train 1 arm push-ups and the sweat just started bucketing out of me and one time my heart just started Jack hammering for no reason. I had a pal who experienced similar effects from powering high volume 1 arm swings. Still didn’t stop me lol. Was when every callous on my hand tore in what felt like slow motion that put an end to that insanity. Once my hand healed I just couldn’t face that kind of stuff.

Yeah, I can get like those weird metabolic side effects if I spend too much time training in a high adrenaline state.

So I save that for competition peaking.

 

[Kev]

Yeah, I can get like those weird metabolic side effects if I spend too much time training in a high adrenaline state.

So I save that for competition peaking.

Wish I’d learned oly lifting.