all posts post new thread

"The Best All-Around Training Method EVER"- 6 months in, I'd say YES!!!!!

One more question about this:
Is there any advantage to doing singles one day, and doubles another?

I did a double session today. 16K times two. I got through 30 relatively easy, so I was thinking about adding the second clean on my next session. But would there be an advantage to going up to 20k and doing a session with a single? Or should I stick with the doubles? Is there more advantage are doing the doubles?
If you can manage double 20s go for it, the increased load yields a stronger metabolic effect, heart, nerve, muscle, sinew and bone all under greater load. Pay attention to that when figuring out your repeats.
 
Congratulations on getting mentioned in the newsletter! This post pushed me over the edge and I’m going to make this my next program when I’m done the one I’m on.

A quick question about A+A: it always seems to come with the recommendation of doing it twice a week with plenty of energy left over for other pursuits. But if it’s my only training program I know I’ll have a hard time with only working out twice a week.

What other type of exercise would go well with the A+A C&J program?

Would it be okay to do it three times a week?

Would it work if I did this program twice a week and the twice a week A+A Swing protocol described in the recent newsletter?

Three or four workouts a week (ideally three) has worked for me for a long time and I’m having a tough time wrapping my head around just twice a week.

Thanks for your post!
3 day rotation of swings and c&j...
Day 1 med swings (80% of hvy day)
Day 2 c&j hvy (fail talk test)
Day 3 light swings (60%)

Day 1 med C&j (80% of previous weeks hvy day)
Day 2 hvy swings
Day 3 light C&j (60%)

Or go twice a week as prescribed on the c&j and twice a week on the A+A pullup program from newsletter (4 total sessions)
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_2023-04-11-06-02-39-725.jpg
    Screenshot_2023-04-11-06-02-39-725.jpg
    80.3 KB · Views: 184
In the questions after the “best method ever” article Pavel answered about three times a week. Not sure if this is of any interest to you.


d0884026b0cfa97a45ec7445a7380349
Johnnie Hall says:
February 23, 2022 at 9:36 am
Pavel, thank you for this wonderful program.
I just finished my first week of Plan A and I enjoyed it thoroughly.
My question: I love this routine so far and I am thinking of adding another day (training 3x a week instead of 2x a week) but I am wondering if it would it be more beneficial for GPP to just add a day (or 2) of heavy swings instead to have some of the benefits that Swings provide.
Thank you for sharing your wisdom with the world!
Johnnie
Awesome, thanks. Didn’t see that.
 
In this week's Strongfirst email newsletter about this thread, it starts by describing two-handed swings every 20 secs. But this thread seems to be talking about Clean & Jerk ?
(I tried to use the link to Pavel's articles on "the best all-round training method ever". But the web pages are not displaying text correctly / removed. Not sure if this is deliberate or an error?)

Could anyone clarify which exercises can be used in this one rep every 20 secs A+A protocol? Or if a group of different exercises can be switched in/out interchangably ? Was the email newsletter "simplified" to using two-handed swings to make it more universal?

I'm asking because I think Don Fannucci's excellent results and program were using Clean & Jerk ? Need to set my expectations!
 
I have been doing the KBSF program recently and really enjoying it. I have a question regarding the deload week. If I don't currently have a lighter KB how should you deload?
 
In this week's Strongfirst email newsletter about this thread, it starts by describing two-handed swings every 20 secs. But this thread seems to be talking about Clean & Jerk ?
(I tried to use the link to Pavel's articles on "the best all-round training method ever". But the web pages are not displaying text correctly / removed. Not sure if this is deliberate or an error?)

Could anyone clarify which exercises can be used in this one rep every 20 secs A+A protocol? Or if a group of different exercises can be switched in/out interchangably ? Was the email newsletter "simplified" to using two-handed swings to make it more universal?

I'm asking because I think Don Fannucci's excellent results and program were using Clean & Jerk ? Need to set my expectations!
The email kind of mashed two things together. One, the every 20 second swing protocol. And two, this thread, which was used as a tool to market the KBSF program.

I think this is gearing up to push Pavel's new A+A book, so we're likely to see more A+A material coming :)
 
I have been doing the KBSF program recently and really enjoying it. I have a question regarding the deload week. If I don't currently have a lighter KB how should you deload?
You could lower the volume, or change movements (2H Swings instead of one-hand or snatches, say).
 
I have been doing the KBSF program recently and really enjoying it. I have a question regarding the deload week. If I don't currently have a lighter KB how should you deload?
A few ideas:
  • Go one or two steps back (e.g., CJC instead of CJCJ)
  • Use same step, but do only 60% of max volume (e.g., 18 rounds instead of 30)
  • Go timeless and just keep it easy.
  • Go every 45 seconds instead of every 30, and do less rounds (e.g., 20 instead of 30)
 
I’m so excited about the book! I just finished 12 weeks of Q&D, and am starting a “classic” A+A plan starting this weekend, based on 5 reps EMOM.

The newsletter almost had me thinking otherwise, but I didn’t want to change things yet “just because.”
 
i'll put in another update- results are still coming, which is wild...

tuesday's workout goal was to continue to build comfort w/ 3 reps of the 32kg at top and bottom of the minute-
the pattern was
24 for 3, 28 for 2- repeated 3 times- then finish that 8 minute block with 2 sets of the 32 for 3
we did a total of 8 rounds of the above for 64 minutes- the goal was to keep the effort up just a little bit but then spike it briefly- kind of like running and then ascending a hill

today was different- i wanted some brutal strength work so this was the pattern
24 for 1, 28 for 1, 32 for 1, 28for 1, 44 for 3
we did this for 45 minutes- the triples w/ the 44 was kind of like wrestling a bear- but doable... the heart rate really came down with the singles and the waviness was restorative to bang out the triple... this is going to make anything less than a triple with the 44 feel super easy- which is kind of the point of the whole program
 
Last edited:
and all of the stop signs were followed- so the speed, tempo, RPE, breathing, technique never wavered- i was pretty happy that all of the reps with the 44 essentially were the same- which means that in 45 minutes i did 54 1 handed clean and jerks with 44kg- that felt honorable
 
Week 5 of this program. Running it as written twice a week in addition to BJJ 3 times a week. Monday and Thursday.
Worked up to CJ/CJ for 22 minutes with 32kg this morning. Deload next week.
Some obs at this stage:
This feels like manual labour.
I’m dropping lbs at the moment for a bjj comp but I find I’m hungrier than I was on SS or KSK.
The talk test is a good indicator of when I’m done for the day. I run a double J program last year but I prefer this program. I enjoy TGU and find they support BJJ so on weeks I can only get to BJJ twice I add in a TGU session.
Will complete a 10 minute Jerk/ snatch test and pull up test at the end to see how my numbers add up to TSC.
Great program.
 
In this week's Strongfirst email newsletter about this thread, it starts by describing two-handed swings every 20 secs. But this thread seems to be talking about Clean & Jerk ?
(I tried to use the link to Pavel's articles on "the best all-round training method ever". But the web pages are not displaying text correctly / removed. Not sure if this is deliberate or an error?)

Could anyone clarify which exercises can be used in this one rep every 20 secs A+A protocol? Or if a group of different exercises can be switched in/out interchangably ? Was the email newsletter "simplified" to using two-handed swings to make it more universal?

I'm asking because I think Don Fannucci's excellent results and program were using Clean & Jerk ? Need to set my expectations!
I recently finished up my Q&D program and have just began the A+A program mentioned in the newsletter.

Monday: A+A HEAVY (1 goblet, 2 hand swing,2 hand swing) 20 second rest between exercises @ 40 minutes duration.

Tuesday: Pavel Macek resilience exercises 2 sets of five each. Exercises- hack squat, Jefferson curl, Hockey DL, bent arm bar, bretzel arm bar, gymnastic bridge (timed),
bar hang (timed), and rolling neck bridge.

Wednesday: Get Ups: 2x2 @ 0 kg, 2x2 @ 8 kg, 2x2 @16 kg, 2x2 @ 24 kg, 2x2 @32 kg

Thursday: A+A ( 1 pushup, 1 snatch right, 1 snatch left) 20 second rest between exercises @ 40 minutes duration.

Friday: Yoga/Run light fun day!

Monday- Friday: Derek Miller Daily Dose DL program.
 
@don fannucci
So you're not following the program exactly? You're clearly varying the weight and the reps. Are you varying the rest time, or are you doing EMOM?
Would you say the key is to keep it explosive and fresh?
I have a full range of bell sizes and I love to work with heavier bells. Do you think one could achieve similar results by doing pyramids? I was thinking about starting light and going as heavy as I can before descending. My workout starts at 5:00am, so I really have to warm up well.
 
this is my approach as i continue to punch the clock on these workouts- it is always reps at the top and bottom of the minute (i.e. every 30 seconds, but always ensuring compliance withe the strong first stop signs)

the key seems to be waviness (inside the workout) and practice- all the while managing fatigue- i.e. never getting actually "tired"

i try to establish for each workout specific goals- so yesterday, looking back at the last few weeks of training, i wanted to get a lot of reps in but also back off a bit

so the pattern was-

53 for 1, 53 for 2, 53 for 3, 62 for 2, 62 for 3- then the cherry on top of each of these "stacks" was either 1, 2 or 3 reps w/ the 70

so... lots of reps, minimal fatigue- total of 60 minutes- so i got to practice the 70 (motor unit recruitment for strength) and practice lighter weights (motor unit recruitment for speed/power/explosiveness)

all this practice- "if you want to press a lot, you have to press a lot"- works for both maximum strength AND endurance- motor unit recruitment seems very high- so the skills and quality of the movement continues to improve- and i can imagine that i'm building tons of mitochondria

and the variance between each workout keeps things very fresh and interesting- but the key seems to be always working on the next set feeling like you are NOT accumulating any fatigue
 
this is my approach as i continue to punch the clock on these workouts- it is always reps at the top and bottom of the minute (i.e. every 30 seconds, but always ensuring compliance withe the strong first stop signs)

the key seems to be waviness (inside the workout) and practice- all the while managing fatigue- i.e. never getting actually "tired"

i try to establish for each workout specific goals- so yesterday, looking back at the last few weeks of training, i wanted to get a lot of reps in but also back off a bit

so the pattern was-

53 for 1, 53 for 2, 53 for 3, 62 for 2, 62 for 3- then the cherry on top of each of these "stacks" was either 1, 2 or 3 reps w/ the 70

so... lots of reps, minimal fatigue- total of 60 minutes- so i got to practice the 70 (motor unit recruitment for strength) and practice lighter weights (motor unit recruitment for speed/power/explosiveness)

all this practice- "if you want to press a lot, you have to press a lot"- works for both maximum strength AND endurance- motor unit recruitment seems very high- so the skills and quality of the movement continues to improve- and i can imagine that i'm building tons of mitochondria

and the variance between each workout keeps things very fresh and interesting- but the key seems to be always working on the next set feeling like you are NOT accumulating any fatigue
I like this approach. The only thing that worries me is the EMOM. I'm worried that the heavier weights will burn me out. Is there something magic about EMOM, or do you think similar results could be acheived with a set every 90 seconds or 2 minutes?
 
I like this approach. The only thing that worries me is the EMOM. I'm worried that the heavier weights will burn me out. Is there something magic about EMOM, or do you think similar results could be acheived with a set every 90 seconds or 2 minutes?
I've been wondering the same as keen to progress to double 32s which are currently a little too heavy.
Perhaps Strong! with C&J as per article in AGT extension style;
 
I like this approach. The only thing that worries me is the EMOM. I'm worried that the heavier weights will burn me out. Is there something magic about EMOM, or do you think similar results could be acheived with a set every 90 seconds or 2 minutes?
our observed experience with this kind of work is that if you follow the stop signs and start reasonable, over time the "heavy" sets will naturally build themselves into the work- so the every 30 seconds with a heavy bell could be done every 3, 4, 5 or 6 rounds- the point is that you are getting the practice.... say do you light for 1, 2, 3, 1,2, and then go heavy for a single and then back to the light, you get best of both worlds- you get the aerobic growth from the EMOM, and you will find that the heavy bell is doable for a single as your heart rate won't be spiked- and then you come back down and continue banging out quality reps with the lighter weight

for instance, i remember the first time a few months ago that i added in the 44kg bell... it was for a single, felt crazy heavy (but doable)- last friday i was banging out triples with it every 3 rounds.... so the work capacity and the overall power/strength is built concurrently...

it is truly the best of everything
 
Back
Top Bottom