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"The Best All-Around Training Method EVER"- 6 months in, I'd say YES!!!!!

Question for @don fannucci and everyone else who is deep into this program: how do you feel after each set? I was doing the program as written and I wasn't feeling anything. I switched to a 5x5 twice a week and now I feel a lot (in a good way). I do 5x5 every 3:30 seconds, so I get a long rest. I do 5 reps with double 24, and when I put them down, I feel like I've just run a sprint. Then, after the long rest, I feel ready for another one. I feel warm, mobile, and juiced up during and after this workout. Later in the day, I have a nice spring in my step, but I get beat up if I do the two sessions too close to each other.

I'm wondering what effect this should have over the long term and how it might compare and contrast with the program does.
Interestingly, I have been running the Giant 1.0 and 1.1 and this is about the work rest ratio that I naturally gravitate towards when following the autoregulation signs. Seems to be working wonders for me so far.
 
Interestingly, I have been running the Giant 1.0 and 1.1 and this is about the work rest ratio that I naturally gravitate towards when following the autoregulation signs. Seems to be working wonders for me so far.
That's interesting. I always felt pressure to do more work with the Giant. You rest that long huh? For 30 minutes?
 
That's interesting. I always felt pressure to do more work with the Giant. You rest that long huh? For 30 minutes?
Yeah, if I'm understanding your comment correctly. I typically do a set and then rest based on the autoregulation parameters. But I put a timer on just for fun and it usually shakes out between 3-5 minutes of rest in between sets depending on the rep count for the day with an average somewhere between 3.5-4 minutes. I could probably do a little more work in that time frame but I find with the higher rep sets that this rest period works well for me personally.

As an aside, I have been including some 2H swings on my some of my off days using A+A parameters. Usually around 5 or 6 reps and EMOM for 10-15 minutes. This is more of a supplement to the Giant stuff so I try to keep it kind of tame. I feel like this has a really low recovery cost so it doesn't seem to impact me much as far as getting the Giant done. But the extra ballistic work seems to be helping with increasing overall calories burned.
 
Yeah, if I'm understanding your comment correctly. I typically do a set and then rest based on the autoregulation parameters. But I put a timer on just for fun and it usually shakes out between 3-5 minutes of rest in between sets depending on the rep count for the day with an average somewhere between 3.5-4 minutes. I could probably do a little more work in that time frame but I find with the higher rep sets that this rest period works well for me personally.

As an aside, I have been including some 2H swings on my some of my off days using A+A parameters. Usually around 5 or 6 reps and EMOM for 10-15 minutes. This is more of a supplement to the Giant stuff so I try to keep it kind of tame. I feel like this has a really low recovery cost so it doesn't seem to impact me much as far as getting the Giant done. But the extra ballistic work seems to be helping with increasing overall calories burned.
When you put the bells down after doing a set of of 8, for example, how do you feel? When I do a set of 8 with double 20s, I feel like I've just done a sprint.

Edit: I am doing clean and jerks, not clean and press.
 
When you put the bells down after doing a set of of 8, for example, how do you feel? When I do a set of 8 with double 20s, I feel like I've just done a sprint.

Edit: I am doing clean and jerks, not clean and press.
I would say when I do a set of 8 C&P, that it I don't quite feel like I have done a sprint. However, as you pointed out I am doing C&P, not C&J. When I have played around with C&J in the past I do feel like I have done a sprint after high rep sets of that movement. Must be the additional explosive component. To me, the effect of double C&P on the body feels a lot like any compound barbell movement would.
 
today set an all time Personal best with a 1 Hand Clean and Jerk w/ a 115lb dumbell
RPE was about a 7

also got the beast with my left hand, which is a significant accomplishment after a neck injury in 2017

and i've been focusing on easy volume- mixing a lot of rounds of 1 and 2 and the occasional 3- this keeps me fresh but i am still stunned at how many qualities continue to improve all at once
 
i am still stunned at how many qualities continue to improve all at once
This thread has been an extremely inspiring read, and this line really sums up what is so inspiring about it.

It's been so inspiring, in fact, that a few weeks ago I decided to jump in and run the program myself for the first time - despite having bought it right when it came out. I'm on Plan A with the single-arm LCCJ (currently sitting at C+J+C+J for 30 mins with the 32kg while I establish my baseline) and I have to say that I am absolutely loving these sessions. I never feel winded and I feel fantastic for the rest of the day.

I have good work capacity so I'm structuring my weeks like this with great results:

Mon - KBSF
Tues - Tactical Barbell (Operator template: Incline BP, BB front squat, weighted pull-ups - taking a break from DL atm)
Wed - Hill sprints (15 secs with c.2 mins rest)
Thurs - TB
Fri - KBSF
Sat - TB
Sun - MAF air bike Fobbit session 45 min (alternating sets of dips and rows every 3 mins)

I also walk the hills between home and work every day for around 90 minutes.

This structure really seems to tick all the boxes and it never seems like I'm pushing recovery.

@don fannucci I'm really intrigued by the way you've structured the program according to your preferences, and right out of the gate it seems. I actually feeling torn between following the program as it's laid out versus imitating what you've done with such encouraging outcomes. What made you change it up from the beginning?
 
"What made you change it up from the beginning?"

i did Q and D a few years ago- i'm intrigued by the concept of waviness- the goal is practice as far as i can tell and the waviness allows practice across a number of dimensions- high volume if you throw in a lot of 3s, or high weights if you focus on singles... i also remember reading about motor learning across different dimensions (i.e. the value of practicing with "lower" weights and focusing on speed, which should help motor unit recruitment, or higher weights to do the same but different, making the lower weights feel easier)

in 2009 i made a serious run at Kenneth Jays Viking Warrior- i did pretty well on it- but man was it HARD- like mind-bendingly difficult- and therefore not sustainable over the long term- see pavel's SF WOD article for the best explanation of what i'm aiming for

the accumulation of practice- volume, heavy weights, heart rate/mitochondrial training all while modulating fatigue and allowing for high levels of enthusiasm with every workout (also each workout seems well calibrated to my fatigue levels, high or low)... i think this is long term sustainable...

i've also had a chance to train with about 8 people following this kind of training- and they are all seeing the same kinds of massive gains

my 13 year old daughter (115lbs) last night got a 45lb kb over head 48 times in a 48 minute workout- and it was just a few months ago that she got the 45 for a single... now it is her "heavy" working bell... i am floored by this kind of progress... it's well within the realm of possibility that she's banging out reps with the 24kg bell in the next few weeks... which is the bell that pavel said that grown men should aspire to!

i'd love to hear from other SF experts about this kind of training
 
"What made you change it up from the beginning?"

i did Q and D a few years ago- i'm intrigued by the concept of waviness- the goal is practice as far as i can tell and the waviness allows practice across a number of dimensions- high volume if you throw in a lot of 3s, or high weights if you focus on singles... i also remember reading about motor learning across different dimensions (i.e. the value of practicing with "lower" weights and focusing on speed, which should help motor unit recruitment, or higher weights to do the same but different, making the lower weights feel easier)

in 2009 i made a serious run at Kenneth Jays Viking Warrior- i did pretty well on it- but man was it HARD- like mind-bendingly difficult- and therefore not sustainable over the long term- see pavel's SF WOD article for the best explanation of what i'm aiming for

the accumulation of practice- volume, heavy weights, heart rate/mitochondrial training all while modulating fatigue and allowing for high levels of enthusiasm with every workout (also each workout seems well calibrated to my fatigue levels, high or low)... i think this is long term sustainable...

i've also had a chance to train with about 8 people following this kind of training- and they are all seeing the same kinds of massive gains

my 13 year old daughter (115lbs) last night got a 45lb kb over head 48 times in a 48 minute workout- and it was just a few months ago that she got the 45 for a single... now it is her "heavy" working bell... i am floored by this kind of progress... it's well within the realm of possibility that she's banging out reps with the 24kg bell in the next few weeks... which is the bell that pavel said that grown men should aspire to!

i'd love to hear from other SF experts about this kind of training
That all makes perfect sense. Thanks for elucidating!

The progress you've described in these youngsters - as well as you and the other adults - is really astounding.

Personally, I might get a better feel for the protocol as written for a little while longer but you've talked me into 'breaking free' in the not-too-distant future.

Looking forward to seeing more progress updates from you!
 
After 4 months off training due to a DIY home project, decided to start up with this protocol using a 24kg. It fits into my training well with a relaxed approach getting back into it (2x week KBSF, plus some bodyweight and running sprinkled in).

Worked up from 22 minutes to 30 minutes duration, on the Plan A single arm C+J. Ok so far. Very enjoyable.

Question on the progression others have experienced : adding an extra clean to CJC is quite a step up. Only got 18 minutes before deciding to terminate the session. I could have pushed on but my core was fatiguing. The thought of getting to 30 mins is doable, but then adding a further jerk, phew.. After that how many people actually progress to CJCJCJ for 30 secs/30 minutes - it seems a big step up or will the adaptions come naturally?
 
After 4 months off training due to a DIY home project, decided to start up with this protocol using a 24kg. It fits into my training well with a relaxed approach getting back into it (2x week KBSF, plus some bodyweight and running sprinkled in).

Worked up from 22 minutes to 30 minutes duration, on the Plan A single arm C+J. Ok so far. Very enjoyable.

Question on the progression others have experienced : adding an extra clean to CJC is quite a step up. Only got 18 minutes before deciding to terminate the session. I could have pushed on but my core was fatiguing. The thought of getting to 30 mins is doable, but then adding a further jerk, phew.. After that how many people actually progress to CJCJCJ for 30 secs/30 minutes - it seems a big step up or will the adaptions come naturally?
Thats the point, its a slow gradual buildup with deload weeks built in.

Then you have plan B to switch to when you stall on plan A.

Im currently doing the same as you with the long term goal of completing the 30 minutes with a 32kg.
 
This is great, sounds like cardio and upper body went through the roof.
I might have missed this, but did you add anything in for your legs?
 
After 4 months off training due to a DIY home project, decided to start up with this protocol using a 24kg. It fits into my training well with a relaxed approach getting back into it (2x week KBSF, plus some bodyweight and running sprinkled in).

Worked up from 22 minutes to 30 minutes duration, on the Plan A single arm C+J. Ok so far. Very enjoyable.

Question on the progression others have experienced : adding an extra clean to CJC is quite a step up. Only got 18 minutes before deciding to terminate the session. I could have pushed on but my core was fatiguing. The thought of getting to 30 mins is doable, but then adding a further jerk, phew.. After that how many people actually progress to CJCJCJ for 30 secs/30 minutes - it seems a big step up or will the adaptions come naturally?
Naturally.
The sessions change drastically as the reps go up and the rest compresses. There is psychological component as well.
 
Naturally.
The sessions change drastically as the reps go up and the rest compresses. There is psychological component as well.
Thanks for the reply. I look forward to the adaptions if the workload is increasing so much in the later sessions. Oh and I will "trust the process" and take that deload...
 

i wanted to report the last 6 months of training and ask the community for feedback and share the insights

started following this program with very slight modifications
2 days a week, 1 day volume with reps, 1 day focused on heavier weights and slightly lower reps

for example, day 1 might be 3 reps 24kg, 3 reps 24kg, 3 reps 32kg, top and bottom of the minute, repeated for up to 60 min(total of 360 reps)- always aerobic, following the strong first rule of 5
or 62 for 2 for up to 60 minutes-

i tried to keep some waviness with this, but always passing the talk test at :28 seconds and :58 seconds

day 2- strength
62 for 1, 70 for 1, 79 for 1 for 40- 50 minutes

depending on life, weather, other circumstances, i'll do anywhere from 30-70 minutes of this twice a week- i've worked up to C and J the 44kg bell for doubles in one of the #2 workouts- easy and repeatable

so... after 6 months, some observations
1) i'm never exhausted from this- it is totally aerobic, repeatable and scaleable- i haven't missed a workout and i'm always looking forward to this
2) my endurance with the C and J has gone through the roof- i've done up to 75 total minutes and charting my heart rate it basically stays well within the maffetone numbers (140-145)
3) absolute strength has gone through the roof- i can easily clean and jerk a 110 pound dumbbell or the beast KB with almost no effort-
4) folks i'm training with are doing amazing- 14 year old boy, still young, easily C and J a 55lb dumbbell at 110 lbs... 16 y/o boy is banging out 3 reps with the 28kg kb in the #2 workout (a year ago couldn't hold a side plank)... training partner (father of the two boys) easily clean and jerks 90lbs for singles and is cranking out sets of 3 with the 32kg in these workouts- and he's jumping like he was 18 years old (his words!)
5) today, after not really snatching in a while, at the end of a general workout- did the RKC/Strongfirst 100 rep snatch test w/ the 53 in 3:22- tired but not exhausted or blown up

i've not seen anyone else report their experiences with this

i'm 47 years, old, former college rower, much more aerobic based than naturally powerful- but i'm feeling bulletproof and the folks i'm training with- young and "old" are seeing massive gains

thanks Pavel for such a brilliant program- i'm imagining that if i can do some kind of variation of this for the next 10 years, my 60's and beyond will be quite fruitful
Hey @don fannucci : Thanks for sharing your results and approach.

After some months of structured hypertrophy training I started to crave something more "flowing" and intuitive. I have done KBSF as written in the past, but with lots of work related stress and the death of a family member I was intrigued by the more playful approach you outline here.

So for the past few weeks I have done 2x KBSF, 1x Iron Cardio, and 2-3x aerobic training (running, cycling) per week. I have done weight ladders, rep ladders, straight sets, single bell, double bell, timed, timeless, etc.

When I am short on time or want a more relaxed timing, I would go for doubles. Today, I had more time than usual and the weather was nice, so I went for 54 minutes of single bell LCCJ ladders of (1,2), training in the sun. NL = 81 per arm, average HR of about 124. Love it!

I am thinking of adding a very short and light IC practice session, someting like 10-15 minutes to practice my pressing some more.

Anyway, thanks for opening this thread, this is just what I needed.
 
update-

the 16 y/o boy i've been training got the 36kg today for singles in the clean and jerk- both hands- last spring he couldn't hold a side plank...

my 13 1/2 year old daughter cranked the 24kg today for some singles the first time too... at about 115 lbs bodyweight..

i was able to work in the beast today myself for singles...

this process is amazing... we're all still making great gains- and physically i've never felt more well knit together and bulletproof
 
Here’s a question, from someone interested in KBSF LCCJ but who has never done a jerk before. What have people found to be the best way to learn jerks? Has anyone self-taught using the KBSF videos and the manual’s suggested practice protocols? How long did it take?

I’m just antsy about cutting into other programs for the sake of practicing a new move. Because I’m a weirdo. KBSF is on the back burner until I finish the Giant+KSK alternating block program I’m running now. But I’m thinking ahead.
 
Here’s a question, from someone interested in KBSF LCCJ but who has never done a jerk before. What have people found to be the best way to learn jerks? Has anyone self-taught using the KBSF videos and the manual’s suggested practice protocols? How long did it take?

I’m just antsy about cutting into other programs for the sake of practicing a new move. Because I’m a weirdo. KBSF is on the back burner until I finish the Giant+KSK alternating block program I’m running now. But I’m thinking ahead.
Honestly the best way I feel I learn is recording myself and watching my tech... I watch mine vs how it should look & try and find pieces that can improve
 
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