'The Game Changers' Documentary

Discussion in 'Diet and Nutrition' started by RichJ, Oct 9, 2019.

  1. Molson

    Molson Double-Digit Post Count

    Watched it finally.

    Interesting how he got from 8 min to one hour of ropes just after switching diet. It’s tempting to see how this could effect SSST or other endurance ballistic tests.

    Personally I had been always in between both sides and every now and then I gravitate more to vegan. I’m not saying that watching this might do the final flip, but there is defensively a lot of interesting info there.
  2. ClaudeR

    ClaudeR Triple-Digit Post Count

    The simple fact is humans’ physiology is that of omnivores, end of discussion.

    Any diet study that takes unhealthy rubbish eating people and puts them onto natural foods will see drastic improvements, regardless of the actual diet protocol (be it vegan, paleo, mediterranean (which btw is very unlike what the mediterranean lifestyle is really about), they all are an improvement over what study participants ate before).

    Humans can survive vegan diets of course but it is the one that is the farthest away from our physiology (compare human digestive tracts against that of true vegan creatures... no study will ever prove otherwise). Note I am not sayingbit is bad, just not either natural or superior (and neither is any other “diet”)

    Unfortunately we live in times where everything has to be sensationalist or “game changer”
  3. Bryant W

    Bryant W Double-Digit Post Count

    It is not obvious to me why the fact that we are omnivores means an omnivorous diet is the most healthy, and that therefore the discussion should end. I can certainly understand that, in order to achieve reproductive fitness (which may be different than the fitness that contributes to long life after reproductive fitness is achieved), an omnivorous diet offers more nutrition options in situations of resource scarcity/famine, and therefore probably improves survival in that scenario. In situations where resource scarcity is not an issue, and you have the luxury of choosing your foods, it seems reasonable to at least question which of the products available are most healthy. An obvious example: we apparently are capable of digesting high fructose corn syrup. Is it a good idea to do so, just because we are adapted to do so? I see no reason other than my love of medium rare steak to not question the same about animal products.

    Other examples of human adaptations that have downsides: Sickle cell disease confers a survival benefit to malaria, but it doesn't do much good for someone in western Michigan. Lipoprotein A levels that are high may have blood clot forming effects that are beneficial to stop bleeding after trauma or child birth, etc, but their persistently elevated levels over a lifetime aren't too good for your heart or brain. In other words, just because we have evolved in a certain way as a species doesn't mean that way is best for our long term health as an individual.

    Having watched GameChangers myself, I think it does a good job showing something I have witnessed over the last few decades: folks can choose to be vegan and still be badass.
    Anna C, vegpedlr, Molson and 2 others like this.
  4. ClaudeR

    ClaudeR Triple-Digit Post Count

    absolutely no doubt about that!
  5. vegpedlr

    vegpedlr More than 500 posts

    People generally overestimate human omnivory and underestimate our fundamental primate physiology.

    Our limited ability to utilize animal foods was an evolutionary asset during a long history of food insecurity.

    Now it is a liability of global proportion.
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
  6. North Coast Miller

    North Coast Miller More than 2500 posts

    The latest thinking is that early use of fire made homo very different from other primates and omnivores. Our digestive tract is ridiculously small compared to our energy throughput compared to just about anything else out there, and by a huge margin.

    Cooking makes veg nutrients much more available and easier to digest, it really doesn't do anything for nutritional or digestive properties of meat. This is leading to current thought that our digestive system is more a result of evolving alongside cooked veg than any other single factor.

    This easy availability of glucose might have even driven or at least enabled the evolutionary increase in brain size. Outright speculation at this point, but plausible since brain's preferred fuel is glucose to the tune of 300+ calories/day minimum.
    ShawnM, Molson, ali and 2 others like this.
  7. vegpedlr

    vegpedlr More than 500 posts

    One of the anthropologists briefly featured in the film, Nathaniel Dominy, dubbed humans “starchivores” to distinguish us from our primate cousins, who are frugivores. Being able to get our calories by cooking complex carbs has allowed us to roam much further, through much more varied climates than other primates, who rely on fresh, ripe fruit.
    ShawnM and fractal like this.
  8. Steve Freides

    Steve Freides Forum Administrator Senior Certified Instructor

    This is rarely the case on a forum, @ClaudeR. In 2019, there is no such thing as an indisputable fact, let along an unarguable point of view.

    LukeV and Chrisdavisjr like this.
  9. ClaudeR

    ClaudeR Triple-Digit Post Count

    Yes ok, bad choice of words really! Of course I value the discussion, I wouldn’t post here otherwise of course!
    Steve Freides and LukeV like this.
  10. LejonBrames

    LejonBrames Triple-Digit Post Count

    Pretty interesting video I found that sums up my feelings on the doc. It's about 30 minutes, so grab a nice meal(Vegan or not) and a drink and enjoy:

    Molson and Xene like this.
  11. Chrisdavisjr

    Chrisdavisjr Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    I've been vegan for 8½ years and am generally concerned that the kind of people who go around spouting pro-vegan rhetoric in an almost proselytising fashion tend to be the same people who, a short while later, will very publicly announce that they have given up veganism because it was making them ill (probably because they lived off nothing but fruit or tried to photosynthesize). Tim Sheiff is a prime example; claiming that veganism was ruining his health while at the same time espousing water-fasting and drinking his own urine.

    I haven't watched the documentary though. Should I? I'd rather be lifting.
    ShawnM, fractal and Bunn like this.
  12. Oscar

    Oscar Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    I have watched many and this one added a few new concepts.
  13. Kalle Videnoja

    Kalle Videnoja Double-Digit Post Count

    Well, if you’re lacking of good topics for a coffee table conversation the documentary might be well worth of your time... Seriously, though, I think the documentary is a fine example of the change in discourse about veganism. In spite of its biases, the film gets its message through that not eating animals doesn’t necessarily imply being in impaired position performance-wise. As a college student some 10 years ago I would regurlary get comments from the people I trained with that they were surprised that I was able to train that hard considering I was a vegetarian. Frankly, I’ve never felt that my diet was hindering my progression - bad training plans and nights out were. And the same goes the other way, of course: when I was making gains it was because of the dedication to train, not because of the diet.
  14. Oscar

    Oscar Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    I would end this sentence with "too much". I dont know if there is an edge in eating animals or not, to be honest. I do think that if I was a professional athlete, I wouldn't risk it and would probably eat some animals.

    What I'm pretty convinced of is that reducing animal food is good for health.

    About the film, here is what I liked:
    1. B12. I thought it was a vegan issue, now I think not.
    2. Erections. The results in this test were too awesome not to call my attention. Not only erection wise but more holistically. Not sure what it means though.
    3. Your not gonna look like a skinny yoga practitioner. Unless you want to
    I didnt like the alleged improvement in performance due to change of diet. Improving the fighting rope test 10 times? After being injured? I dont think that's true.

    Having been vegan for a while, I'm more inclined towards non-stupid ways of eating nowadays. But I like having the freedom of eating mostly vegan and that my performance will not suffer as a consequence.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  15. ali

    ali Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    This paper draws attention to how a few cherry picked themes can be merged to make a compelling argument.
    It has been circulating in response to the game changing doc but really it applies to any viewpoint in nutritional discourse.
    Read it through, not just the abstract, as it seems quite convincing, framed the way it is. ..
    Cigarette smoking: an underused tool in high-performance endurance training
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  16. vegpedlr

    vegpedlr More than 500 posts

    Sure, I found it very inspirational. Then you’ll know first hand what the fuss is about. But since you’ve been at it for more than a minute, you already know what the critics say.

    You could grab a KB, and every time a Dr. or Prof. comes on, do some swings or C+P. Kinda like a drinking game.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
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  17. Chrisdavisjr

    Chrisdavisjr Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    I want 'non-stupid' to be the new 'antifragile'.
  18. ali

    ali Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    Is that a thing? Is it even possible?
  19. Oscar

    Oscar Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    It is. It means eating while reading a book.
  20. Chrisdavisjr

    Chrisdavisjr Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    So, I just watched it and, generally, I was entertained. It didn't teach me anything I didn't already know but it made me really hungry for burritoes.

    I would recommend anyone watching it has some (healthy) food with them at the time.

    There were a couple of moments where I found myself thinking "Well, that's not entirely the case," or "That's not quite right," but I think that's what happens whenever science and entertainment cross paths.
    Oscar likes this.

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