'The Game Changers' Documentary

Chrisdavisjr

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
Pretty interesting video I found that sums up my feelings on the doc. It's about 30 minutes, so grab a nice meal(Vegan or not) and a drink and enjoy:

After watching The Game Changers I watched this and stopped after about 8 minutes in because she wasn't telling me anything I don't already know but also because at the 7 minute 41 second mark, she said that she thought consuming a calorie surplus to improve athletic performance/strength was 'really wasteful'.

I could say that wearing a flannel shirt over a t-shirt is a waste of fabric on an already-covered torso but hey, better flannel than leather, right?

Bloody vegans*.

*is one
 

_matt_

Double-Digit Post Count
Certified Instructor
Watched this by happenstance the other day before seeing this thread. My big take-away was why wouldn't I go vegan? Anecdotal and scientific evidence really don't have any downside that I can see, and there certainly seems to be some correlation between animal protein and diseases.

Meat is good and all, but cheese & eggs will be my real challenge to kick.

So I'm heading in that direction to see how my body reacts.
 

North Coast Miller

More than 2500 posts
Watched this by happenstance the other day before seeing this thread. My big take-away was why wouldn't I go vegan? Anecdotal and scientific evidence really don't have any downside that I can see, and there certainly seems to be some correlation between animal protein and diseases.

Meat is good and all, but cheese & eggs will be my real challenge to kick.

So I'm heading in that direction to see how my body reacts.
Father in law went vegan after his heart attack at age 65. Lived another 22 years and re-roofed part of his house at age 82-83. He never did take any maintenance prescription meds.

I agree there are downsides to strict vegan that can be worked around, but work it does.
 

the hansenator

More than 500 posts
The cynical part of me feels that when people become healthier on a vegan diet it's because they're being careful about what they eat for the first time in their lives. You can be vegan and still eat like crap.

Probably the quality of food matters the most. I find it hard to believe that people suddenly lose weight and become healthier because they give up organic free-range chicken and wild caught Alaskan salmon.

T-Nation has an article on The Game Changers if you're interested The Game Changers – Exposed | T Nation
 

vegpedlr

More than 500 posts
I agree there are downsides to strict vegan that can be worked around, but work it does.
If you stick to whole doods, it’s astonishingly easy. No more difficult than any healthy diet. Sadly, few make the effort.

Probably the quality of food matters the most. I find it hard to believe that people suddenly lose weight and become healthier because they give up organic free-range chicken and wild caught Alaskan salmon.
Yet that was precisely my experience, and many others I’ve talked to. It wasn’t until I ditched the animal foods and oils that I could train with any consistency. I was doing all my own cooking, quality ingredients, Ron of veggies etc. but it didn’t work.
 

Oscar

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
I'm reading a book on mankind evolution and it got me thinking about the common theme of humans' original diet such as Paleo or vegan or whatever. In particular, the value those diets have nowadays for our current goals.

Let's suppose our original diet was paleo, or a vegan diet such as gorillas'. At that time, we had to survive until 40 or 50 years old, in order to have a a few children and raise them. After that age, dieing of a heart attack would probably be good so as not to compete with our offspring and become a burden. Or in any case, living to 80 yo had little value evolutionary wise.

So why would an 80 yo trying to recover from coronary disease use a diet that supported humans until their fifties? Shouldn't she try an alternative more suited to her needs?

(Was this discussed before?)
 

Kalle Videnoja

Double-Digit Post Count
I'm reading a book on mankind evolution and it got me thinking about the common theme of humans' original diet such as Paleo or vegan or whatever. In particular, the value those diets have nowadays for our current goals.
I have quite often wondered the same. When talking about diet, you often hear arguments that appeal to our ancestral history. As a trained philosopher I'm inclined to say there is no factual reason to suppose that what is natural is good, i.e. our phenotype and ancestral history might well guide our hypotheses about e.g. optimal (for who? considering what?) nutrition for human beings but valid arguments really do need independent evidence provided by nutrition science.
 

LukeV

More than 300 posts
I have quite often wondered the same. When talking about diet, you often hear arguments that appeal to our ancestral history. As a trained philosopher I'm inclined to say there is no factual reason to suppose that what is natural is good, i.e. our phenotype and ancestral history might well guide our hypotheses about e.g. optimal (for who? considering what?) nutrition for human beings but valid arguments really do need independent evidence provided by nutrition science.
Exactly! History is nothing but happenstance combined with evolutionary adaptation in the face of happenstance. It has nothing to do with "optimal". Humans have thrived in different kinds of environments, with diverse social constructs, eating different foods, partaking of different exercise. Why must any one particular combination found in "nature" be "optimal"? Maybe they're all sub-optimal and the strongest, healthiest, most well adjusted human in history could only be raised in a laboratory. In my opinion looking back to identify some golden age for the human whether Palaeolithic or otherwise is just sentimental nonsense and the strongest, fastest, healthiest humans ever to have lived are with us today and will only be pushed into second place by future generations
 

North Coast Miller

More than 2500 posts
I'm reading a book on mankind evolution and it got me thinking about the common theme of humans' original diet such as Paleo or vegan or whatever. In particular, the value those diets have nowadays for our current goals.
There are probably other factors at work and possibly continuing to be at work albeit at a much slower evolutionary pace.

The ideal diet for any group of paleolithic humans would have been very different based on availability due to latitude and geography. We can see this playing out currently with factors such as lactose intolerance. Does this mean we should begin any ideal diet quest with a DNA breakdown followed by historical study of flora and fauna associated with the results?

And who's to say there weren't plenty of people walking around with all the same digestive complaints we currently see - based on how many plants were traditionally used medicinally for digestive complaints I'd say the odds are excellent.

Keep coming back to the basic concept that on a planet faced with overpopulation the vegan diet will become increasingly a diet of necessity anyway. We already live in a world where universal adoption of a meat and dairy -heavy Western diet would be unsustainable if not outright impossible from the start.
 

Steve A

Double-Digit Post Count
Let's suppose our original diet was paleo, or a vegan diet such as gorillas'. At that time, we had to survive until 40 or 50 years old, in order to have a a few children and raise them. After that age, dieing of a heart attack would probably be good so as not to compete with our offspring and become a burden.
How original? The evolutionary record suggests considerable change - we evolved and keep evolving. I agree with you that there are real limitations to trying to equate what far removed ancestors did with what we should do. But if "dying early of a heart attack" was better, it is hard to see how this would impact reproductive success. Also if there were areas where resource constraints were that strong, there would be less population growth - so even if there was a "benefit" to early removal of those past reproduction age, it would tend to become a smaller and smaller percentage of the gene pool over the years (areas with less resource constraints would out-reproduce them).

By the way, this review The Game Changers Review - A Scientific Analysis (Updated) | Biolayne comments on the gorilla diet and digestive tract.
 

vegpedlr

More than 500 posts
Early humans hoped they could find enough calories to survive. But primate physiology steered them towards certain sources, and away from others.
 

_matt_

Double-Digit Post Count
Certified Instructor
Keep coming back to the basic concept that on a planet faced with overpopulation the vegan diet will become increasingly a diet of necessity anyway. We already live in a world where universal adoption of a meat and dairy -heavy Western diet would be unsustainable if not outright impossible from the start.
This is a good point. At a minimum, moving in this direction to minimize environmental impact.

By the way, this review The Game Changers Review - A Scientific Analysis (Updated) | Biolayne comments on the gorilla diet and digestive tract.
Thanks for the link. Agree it's worth the read.

At the end of the day, I think Michael Pollan has it right: “Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.” Adding a whole-foods / less processed statement to this probably completes the simplest guidance to eating for health.
 

wespom9

More than 500 posts
Certified Instructor
Haven't watched it, don't care to, nor will I watch the keto shows, the paleo shows, or whatever. Dan John has a great line he's been using on some podcast appearances lately. I'll paraphrase, but "I wouldn't get my education and my entertainment from the same place". Not a line to be taken 100% literally, but I think it gets the point across.
 

kennycro@@aol.com

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
Haven't watched it, don't care to, nor will I watch the keto shows, the paleo shows, or whatever.
Knowledge

The issue with that philosophy is that it limits you knowledge on these diets. It eliminates you from any discussion on the Vegan, Ketogenic and Paleo Diet.

Secondly, you learn the upside and downside of each.

Part of the learning process involves learning what works and what doesn't work. In other words, you learn how implement and incorporate the strength of each and avoid the pitfalls.

Dr John Berardi On Intermittent Fasting

Berardi's PhD is in Nutrition. Berardi runs one of the largest online education nutrition services, Precision Nutrition.

Initially, Berardi didn't know anything about Intermittent Fasting and dismissed it.

However, Berardi realized that at some point his client would know more than he, as a nutritionist, did about Intermittent Fasting.

Berardi did his home work, which included reading the research and experimenting. Berari is now one the experts and advocates of it.

Berardi knows the various type of Intermittent Fasting Protocols; their strength and weaknesses and how to manipulate them for results.

A Great Line From A Dumb Movie

An old movie, I.Q., was a dumb comedy with a great oxymoron line.

"Believe everything you hear and nothing you hear."

The message is that no matter how dumb something sound it may be true but it should be question and investigated.

"I wouldn't get my education and my entertainment from the same place".
Cross Referencing

As your quote basically states, you need to cross referee information.

That amount to reading the positive and negative research on the topic.

The second part is gaining practical experience, first hand knowledge.

Practical Experience

As I have posted, one issue is when it come to implementing a diet, training protocol, etc. is that many individual often apply it incorrectly. They then blame the program rather than themselves; "Garbage in. Garbage out."

As I mentioned in a previous post on Complex Training, I got lucky and got it right, making huge gains in my Deadlift.

I then shifted to what I termed Advance Complex Training (what is termed as French Contrast Training).

My gains with Complex Training were erased with French Contrast Training. The bottom line was that I had incorrectly written and perform the program.

I rewrote the French Contrast Training program, getting right. I gain back what I had lost on my Deadlift and increase it even more.

Take Home Message

As Alwyn Cosgrove (Strength Coach) said, ...

"No one ever got dumbber by reading a book."

That applies to watching podcast, reading research articles, attending seminars, exchanging information on sites like this, etc.

Kenny Croxdale
 
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ClaudeR

Triple-Digit Post Count
Yes all good points!
There is however one caveat, that is everything/everybody you cite have some credibility in science/nutrition/biology/etc

Whereas the documentary is very much pure entertainment, done by purely entertainment people that are only recognized for their fictional proficiency rather than experience in the subject at hand...
Hence I fully agree with the sentiment of not getting education from an entertainment source

In less convoluted words, would you get educated on law based on a police TV show? I certainly would not
 

kennycro@@aol.com

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
...the documentary is very much pure entertainment, done by purely entertainment people that are only recognized for their fictional proficiency rather than experience in the subject at hand...
The Movie

Since I haven't seen it, I cannot comment.

Having tried the Vegan Diet and Lacto-Ovo Vegetarian Diet, years ago, I have some understanding of them.

What little knowledge that I have about the movie is from...

Dr Layne Norton's Review

Norton shredded the information presented it.

Based on Norton's rebuttal and some of my past experience, I would tend to agree.

Jumping to another topic, Norton has also shredded the Ketogenic Diet. Some of the information that he presented in a "Point-Counter Point" discussion with Dr Dom D'Agostino was questionable.

Due to a metabolic condition that I have, since July 2016, I've been on the Ketogenic Diet.

Some of the information Norton presented, based on my practical experience and research wasn't quite right. The research D'Agostino presented questioned some of Norton's concerns, as well.

Ironically, Norton stated in another podcast, if he had a metabolic condition, similar to mine, he definitely consider implementing the Ketogenic Diet. So, at least he'd be less likely to shred me.

Before moving on, let me state that Norton is one of my favorites. In 2013, I was gather research information for a strength topic that I was going to present.

I emailed Norton. He got right back with me, providing reference on the topic.

Diet Issues

From my perspective, each diet has it strengths and weaknesses and method of resolving it.

As with lifting, one of the keys is determining the weak link and then finding the solution.

Game Changer

This is a hyped up, over the top statement.

It remind me of when someone use the trite expression that something "Is The Best..." There rarely is any such animal.

If something truly were "The Best" it would eradicate everything else in the same category.

In most categories, the expression should be, "It is one of the best", with some other options being in the same category.

Kenny Croxdale
 
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